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SPIRIT
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Medicine
Wheel
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6 part 2
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The 24 pages in this Medicine Wheel section are linked below
Dancing the Wheel & More Discussion
part 2
By CinnamonMoon
Earthwalker:
Cinnamon, I know in
spirit that your words are absolutely on target and I am not
afraid of the change. Actually, I look forward to it. I believe
that we have probably all chosen to be part of this as you have
said each in our own way. Still there is part of me that thinks
about chemical reactions to reach a certain endpoint. The end
point can be reached in multiple manners, some more gentle then
others. You are right the end point will be obtained in either
case and that is good; I guess I would like to foster the more
gentle change. This could be a waste of energy since what will
be, will be. I will dance the wheel once I have seen it performed.
I will have Sun Bears book by then as well. Thanks for the advice
as well as the forum.
Tarra:
Earthwalker,
thank you for your "poor choice of words." It pushed
me to explore, indepth, some information I was given. I also
went back and reread your post 'Links between dimensions/realms.'
Dance the Medicine Wheel and you will experience, journal and
you will see the process. Each person assimilates the energy
differently. If you find you have extra energy, remember to
ground. Cinnamon has magick with words I'm an experience type
of person.
Earthwalker:
Tarra, I am very interested in seeing it and experiencing it
to some degree. With schedules over the next two weeks somehow
I doubt that I'll have excess energy. The farther away from
vacation I get the less energy I seem to have for these types
of personal activities. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to
it. It makes sense to me that after viewing a question from
multiple perspectives; the center where each perspective (visualized
as a circles) overlaps would yield the answer with the greatest
energy. I look forward to interacting with spirit guides etc.
as the bounds of each circle (perspective) is explored and as
answers are discovered. Just in case; how do you ground if you
find yourself airborn? Cinnamon may have covered this. I'll
need to reread her notes on each section before the 21st.
WindDancer:
Hello
Earthwalker,
I think
we have been given some important perspectives here, as well
as the tools to make a difference, however, I'll throw in my
two cents (Hum, maybe a quarter's worth), as it's Sunday and
I'm feeling feisty.
First the
book "To
Have or To Be?"
by Fromm. Yes, he is an important mind to modern psychological
thought. There is though (I think) a Coyote trap set up here
and it is manifest in the title. To Have vs. To Be; two polarities.
IMHO, in terms of dancing the wheel, we would find that both
are valid points of view from their own position on the wheel,
rather it is a matter of balance vs. exclusion. This is much
like we see today with the preponderance of expressed American
political energy being an unbalanced male expression (LOL, hope
there are no G.W. Bush fans out there....yah, not likely).This
is not a judgment attached to the energy per se, it is the amount
and *Intent* that can cause damage as it is very Black &
White, Either/Or, and certainly as you point out, is a Power
Over perspective.
Secondly,
no doubt you are familiar with Fritj of Capra and likely have
read his thesis on Steering Business Towards Sustainability.
He uses a systems perspective but differs from the usual capitalistic
definition of business needing to grow to remain viable, to
one of business needing to incorporate the necessity of sustaining
Mother Earth and all her resources if the World to remain viable.
This includes population control and respect and space for All
Our Relations. So, rather than see it as more either/or, Have/Be
as I believe Fromm's position suggests, it is Both/And in a
dynamic but respectful tension that would by definition continue
to be played out. I would see this as a shield balanced between
East and West.
In dancing
the wheel I have learned (and am learning), at least from my
experiential perspective, that the Wheel is endless and layered,
one upon another, creating for me a hologram. It is Great Spirit's
creation and only Spirit can know the whole of which we are
all a part. What I experience on any given dance or journey
is a snapshot, if you would, of some piece of the Whole.
What is
important about this are the Potentials for Change that exist
as we do have Free Will and that means Choice. I think if one
needs a scientific explanation the seeds can be gathered from
David Bohm's theory of Implicate Order, a subquantum level of
'reality' where space-time doesn't exist as was addressed by
Einstein. To put it another way, if I danced one question, after
balancing two directions, I would want to dance the other five,
and may want to take it to other wheels (for example past, present,
future) to *see* as well as to *apply*. I wish I could get more
concrete than that, but as has been discussed before, there
is a point when interacting with Spirit that you just *know*
and it can't be translated because there is no experience in
the mundane that would act as a portal of understanding and
therefore no words.
Let me
ramble on some more, you said: "I keep asking myself isn't
there some way I could help to halt the path of destruction
that we as a world seem to be on."
Yes! Cinnamon
has given some excellent suggestions and she always talks about
Intent, Integrity, and Impeccability. These are key, I believe,
to entering the Fifth Word of Peace. I'll digress for a moment
then apply. Sigman Freud brought forth into everyday awareness
the unconscious, Anna Freud named the mechanisms that ego uses
to keep certain (threatening)material in the unconscious, and
Jung named many of the energy patterns created over time that
reside there (i.e. archetypes) and gave name to a constellation
where they reside enmass - the collective unconscious. I see
the relationship as reciprocal, we create our thoughts, they
create our Thoughtforms, a powerful group Thoughtform becomes
an archetype and in turn those patterns influence our thoughts
and behavior. They also influence group behavior. So we have
personal archetypal energies and we also have the cultural archetypal
energies.
As to the
application (or why in the heck does any of this matter), these
change as we change. Several things are key here. We must own
our individual shadow and bring it to consciousness. This is
done with strong Intent. We must admit to those emotions that
are defended and denied and projected into the personal and
collective unconscious. It is the stuff of the Hero's Journey
(Joseph Campbell) and we can call on positive archetypes to
sustain us as we Impeccably pursue wholeness, calling back our
Spirit and Disowned parts and functioning Whole in the Now.
We are creatures of Duality and when we own that we more easily
maintain our Center and have achieved a practice of Integrity.
As each individual siphons off pressure from the collective
unconscious (our collective 'trash can' of unwanted emotions)
(energy in motion) the explosive potential of the whole lessens.
Dancing the wheel and journeying are excellent ways of addressing
this shamanically as our Guides and Others help us face and
stand in our Truth. Every Thought we have is a choice - an act
of creation and carries the charge of the emotion that propels
it.
"Isn't
there a way to help people understand that what they seek will
not be found from the chosen direction. ... I simply don't accept
it and feel powerless to change the course."
I see three
things. Choose your thoughts carefully and change those that
are unloving. Two, activate the positive archetypes through
journey and with the help of allies. Gain knowledge of the Self.
We can't ever change anyone else. We ca change the self. We
can change the energies that influence the whole. And, three,
and perhaps even more importantly than even that, do not buy
into fear as the reaction of choice; it would only call in the
lesson of facing the unwanted. I think the world situation right
now is a good example of that, so many people afraid of separateness
that they actually want to destroy Those Who Are Different,
not realizing that the face they hate is only another aspect
of the Self.
I am just
frustrated with my own apparent lack of abilities and thought
that the medicine wheel might reveal a more focused direction."
I think the key word here is 'apparent'.
I'll be very interested to hear what you discover when Dancing
the Wheel. Enjoy!
Tarra:
Greetings
Earthwalker, This is my quick grounding exercise. I think of
myself standing. I see a cord from my lower Chakra into Mother
Earth. Lately, that cord is a rope attached to a wishing well
deep within Mother Earth. If I need to tighten it I just roll
up more rope, if I need to loosen it I unroll the rope. I then
I bring Universal Energy from the Creator down through my Crown
Chakra and let it flow all the way through to the wishing well.
I feel clean and refreshed.
Here
is another quick way to recycle positive energy. With one hand
hold the 3 middle fingers on the other hand. (it doesn't matter
which is which) Breath in 5 counts, breathe out 5 counts, hold
5 counts. See the extra energy flowing into the held breath.
Repeat as many times as you need. I will be out of town for
4 days. I know some of you won’t miss me but for those
of you who will, thanks.
WindDancer:
Indeed
you will be missed! Safe journey and hurry back.
CinnamonMoon:
Thank you to WindDancer
and Tarra for your replies. They were well addressed. Tarra,
we're all going to miss you! *S* WindDancer, you found the words
to put things into perspective (I trust) for Earthwalker. I
don't take the scientific or literary approach to terminology,
but the spiritual one so I always struggle with that (as you
know ). Thanks, my friend!
To all others, Tarra has graciously
offered to add a Sweat Ceremony to our online Dancing of the
Wheel on the 21st. Thank you Tarra, and I hope that it will
lend even greater understanding to this sacred tool we are about
to explore. As well, if there are questions about the Sweat
Lodge and purposes of it we will welcome them, but let's keep
those on a separate thread in this forum so that we can maintain
the integrity of both the Dance and the Sweat. Again, thank
you, Tarra, for your contribution to our efforts.
Earthwalker:
Windhorse
and Cinnamon, Thanks for all of your comments and thoughts;
they definitely did help!
“First the
book "To Have or To Be?" by Fromm. Yes, he is an important
mind to modern psychological thought. There is though (I think)
a Coyote trap set up here and it is manifest in the title. To
Have vs. To Be; two polarities. IMHO, in terms of dancing the
wheel, we would find that both are valid points of view from
their own position on the wheel, rather it is a matter of balance
vs. exclusion.”
I did not take
it to be quite that polarizing; only that a new man was emerging
and these were the characteristics. While I agree with the approach
of balance this also can be interpreted as everything / anything
is acceptable. I am not quite ready to agree with the concept
that all good and evil are equal manifestations of the source
energy. I still feel that there are universal truths that are
not governed by manmade law but by natural law. David Neal Walshes
series "Conversation with God” presents a similar
viewpoint some of which I agree with other parts I disagree
with.
“Secondly,
no doubt you are familiar with Fritj of Capra and likely have
read his thesis on Steering Business Towards Sustainability.
He uses a systems perspective but differs from the usual capitalistic
definition of business needing to grow to remain viable, to
one of business needing to incorporate the necessity of sustaining
Mother Earth and all her resources if the World to remain viable.”
I am not familiar
with his writings. I am not business orientated nor really into
psychology either. However from what you are discussing the
practices are similar to those by Edward O. Wilson “Future
of Life” is writing about. He too presents business models
in regards to controlling population and protecting the environment
etc., and how it can in fact they can create growth for all
while balancing the world resources.
“To put it
another way, if I danced one question, after balancing two directions,
I would want to dance the other five, and may want to take it
to other wheels (for example past, present, future) to *see*
as well as to *apply*. I
wish I could get more concrete than that, but as has been discussed
before, there is a point when interacting with Spirit that you
just *know* and it can't be translated because there is no experience
in the mundane that would act as a portal of understanding and
therefore no words.”
I think I really
need to see and experience it. Your discussion reminds me of
Dante. I understand the unfolding of the white rose in Paradiso
etc. and the medicine wheel reminds of that same type of symbolism.
Yet it is still difficult for me to see symbolism. Geometric
theorems and proofs are so easy for me as compared to the symbolism
in literature and religion. It is not necessarily that either
are absolutely black and white the approach is just different.
“ I see the relationship as reciprocal, we create our thoughts,
they create our Thoughtforms, a powerful group Thoughtform becomes
an archetype and in turn those patterns influence our thoughts
and behavior. They also influence group behavior. So we have
personal archetypal energies and we also have the cultural archetypal
energies.” I hope this is true. It is certainly consistent
with David Redfield’s series in particular Shambahala.
“As to the
application (or why in the heck does any of this matter), these
change as we change”. Here too Barbara Max Hubbard discusses
this spiral of the evolution of consciousness in “Conscious
Evolution”.
“Several
things are key here. We must own our individual shadow and bring
it to consciousness. This
is done with strong Intent. We must admit to those emotions
that are defended and denied and projected into the personal
and collective unconscious.”
What emotions
are defended and hidden that have not already been dealt with?
This I cannot say I truly understand and both you and Cinnamon
keep bringing this up. There are times things are not said because
the only outcome would be to hurt another. But they can usually
be brought out by addressing in another way. This sounds like
the Inca medicine of the southern quadrant where the skin of
a snake is shed and person is reborn. But I do not think the
negativities my life are harbored. They are dealt with and one
returns to balance (through admission and forgiveness). Possibly
I need work in this area but I can’t imagine what I haven’t
dealt with or what I have hidden? I am pretty open.
“It is the
stuff of the Hero's Journey (Joseph Campbell) and we can call
on positive archetypes to sustain us as we Impeccably pursue
wholeness, calling back our Spirit and Disowned parts and functioning
Whole in the Now. We are creatures of Duality and when we own
that we more easily maintain our Center and have achieved a
practice of Integrity.”
What disowned
parts? What do people disown?
“As each
individual siphons off pressure from the collective unconscious
(our collective 'trash can' of unwanted emotions) (energy in
motion) the explosive potential of the whole lessens.”
I agree if there
are disowned parts but I need to see what they are first.
“Dancing
the wheel and journeying are excellent ways of addressing this
shamanically as our Guides and Others help us face and stand
in our Truth. Every Thought we have is a choice - an act of
creation and carries the charge of the emotion that propels
it.”
I do believe positive
thoughts can help but one also needs to be careful of being
used by others. This is where Eric Fromm writings about the
new man is important in that the new man moves forward in positive
thought not accepting the thought of masses or the past but
also not in naiveté.
“I see three
things. Choose your thoughts carefully and change those that
are unloving.”
This is relatively
easy to do. Well maybe not always but can be addressed.
“We can change
the energies that influence the whole.”
Possibly, it is
written as such but I don’t know if I have ever seen it
happen except in a negative way “mob rule”. Can you
provide examples where the masses can change the ruling force
with intent only? There are studies which have proven that individuals
which are prayed for do better with disease than those that
have not been prayed for. I truly hope that positive energies
can influence the whole.
This is a primary
reason for my being here; in other words to learn.
“And, three,
and perhaps even more importantly than even that, do not buy
into fear as the reaction
of choice; it would only call in the lesson of facing the unwanted.”
Facing the unwanted
is the way I face life and death situations and create my own
reality. I acknowledge the unwanted as a possibility, and then
look to the reality. It moves me rapidly past depression and
imagination to what really exists. It is natural for me and
I am very comfortable with this mechanism. I do however agree
that facing fear can pull a person into isolationism and create
more negativity. However, for me I respond just the opposite.
You may be correct that what works best for me may not be the
approach for the majority of the population. If negativity /
fear is not dealt with immediately through looking at the problem
from all perspectives, the imagination can create a monster
which becomes self- perpetuating; in this case it would be better
never to have thought of the unwanted. Personally, to me fear
is generated more from a lack of knowledge that from addressing
the unwanted. I believe what you are trying to convey (correct
me if I am wrong) is that if you focus on that which is unwanted
you can in fact bring it into existence by the energy being
pump towards it through thought. My response is possibly but
only if the resultant is not dealt with. Fact can also shatter
the monster created from imagination and the unknown.
“I think
the key word here is 'apparent'. I'll be very interested to
hear what you discover when Dancing the Wheel. Enjoy!”
I am looking forward
to seeing and eventually experiencing it. I truly like the approach
of looking at things from all perspectives but never have even
thought about approaching questions from different realms and
dimensions with the aid of spirit and elements. I think it is
exciting; although knowing how different my approach is if I
wonder if I will see it the same way. Even if it is different
for me at least it will bring additional understanding to me.
Again thank you for all of your posts.
WindDancer I apologize.
I mixed up you name. I am terrible with names; not that that
is an excuse. I do appreciate your comments!!!
WindDancer:
Hi
Earthwalker, This is wild, I had the word WindHorse going through
my mind all day. Anyhow I love horses and grew up with them,
so it's always an honor to be associated. I'm sorry because
of time constraints I'm not going to be able to get back to
your post right away, in fact it will likely be the weekend.
But I promise I will. I think we are still talking apples and
oranges but will try to make more sense of this. Blessings!
Northernwolf:
I may have something to
add regarding the changing of thoughts and so own. This won
be very spiritual but it may help the understanding of the process.
No having studied psychology it's had for me to not draw parallels
between spirituality and psychology, especially when dealing
with a sphere that deals with cognitive processes.
I think all that talk about changing
our thoughts and so on goes beyond the concept of being more
loving or being more positive. Sure these things are important
as they bring into focus the needs of others as well and thus
prevents us from harming them or going on an ego trip and consider
ourselves superior. I guess it's mostly humility and acceptance
that comes out of it. But really from what I understood it's
that owning you thoughts means that you are in charge of your
choices and you accept that responsibility.
Furthermore by being aware it means
that you choose consciously versus choosing involuntarily, by
habit, fear, whatever. To be able to do so, one needs to first
uncover what motivates us to makes some of the choices we make.
Is it truly something we want to do or is it a learned reflex
that we act a certain way within a situation? Does it stem from
past experience that marked us? Is it just societies rules that
have been thought to us? By exploring those things as the comes
along we come to questioning ourselves about certain things
and why we act and respond a certain way (the medicine wheel
and journeys can be tools to explore that).
Going through that brings us to personal
empowerment where you act and choose not because we are conditioned
to it but because we are congruent with our self and truly act
by choice. So for me it goes beyond just a matter of positive
thought or love, it as little to do with it or rather the scope
of it goes well above that. Although positiveness or love can
be through the whole process.
So mostly, for me if you look at most
kinds of spirituality and the personal work that is involved,
it's really about assertiveness and reclaiming the self on one
side and then there is the spiritual or the magickal on the
other and they both merge at one point. Ummm, I guess I rambled
enough for a Tuesday morning.
Earthwalker:
NorthernWolf,
I am glad you
rambled. You clarified some confusion for me with your following
comment.
"But really
from what I understood it's that owning you thoughts means that
you are in charge of your choices and you accept that responsibility.
Furthermore by being aware it means that you choose consciously
versus choosing involuntarily, by habit, fear, whatever. To
be able to do so, one needs to first uncover what motivates
us to makes some of the choices we make. Is it truly something
we want to do or is it a learned reflex that we act a certain
way within a situation? Does it stem from past experience that
marked us? Is it just societies rules that have been thought
to us?
I assumed in my
discussion that all of the above has already has been dealt
with. These things/questions were explored when I was in high
school and college; albeit new facts come to light which lead
to a reanalysis. Personally, I have never gone along with anything
I felt uncomfortable with just because of society teachings.
You always have a choice in all decisions or thoughts in life
and that choice is based on the balancing of responsibilities.
I don't make decisions out of fear; they are always intuitive
after gaining as much knowledge as is available. Every one owns
their own thoughts and needs to deal with situations created
by them. When I make an error I automatically address what I
did wrong and why. Apologies are given where needed and change
is made where needed (keeping in balance all that I am responsible
for). I don't
allow anger to exist; it is dealt with. That is not to say that
situations don't arise where people maybe hurt. Yet, I have
always found that when situations are discussed as adults and
the problem is viewed fairly from both sides the anger is dissipated
even though change maybe inevitable. Minimally, individuals
can move on in respect if not friendship. Personally continued
friendship is what I try to achieve.
You are right
you need to claim the self and merge the spiritual side. Thank
you for clarifying, I do sometimes assume things that I take
for granted (which is inappropriate). You have clarified a lot.
Thanks again!
WindDancer:
Hello
again, Sorry this took so long for me to return to; I don't
share the talent you and Cinnamon obviously have for writing
vast amounts of material in a short time. Many thanks to Northernwolf
who I think captured a very important point in what I was trying
to say. Taking responsibility for our choices is the management
of spiritual power.
This especially
applies to the non-tangibles such as our thoughts, attitudes,
and belief systems. It is amazing how many people think they
believe in a particular thing, but their behavior will belie
their self-deception. They remain clueless until the discrepancy
is brought to their attention. They then have a choice to examine
what they really believe, bring their behavior into line with
the belief, or send the information back into the unconscious
and not deal with it.
To become
conscious and remain in dissidence, I find, usually results
in the person becoming literally ill. I'm speaking here of normal
manifestations of personality.
OK, back
to Fromm, you say, "I did not take it to be quite that
polarizing; only that a new man was emerging and these were
the characteristics. While I agree with the approach of balance
this also can be interpreted as everything / anything is acceptable.
I am not quite ready to agree with the concept that all good
and evil are equal manifestations of the source energy. I still
feel that there are universal truths that are not governed by
manmade law but by natural law. David Neal Walshes series "Conversation
with God” presents a similar viewpoint some of which I
agree with other parts I disagree with."
Perhaps
Fromm didn't pick the title and his publisher did. But to me,
and I use language as a key interpretive tool to the unconscious,
I would have to stick by my reading of the *intention* (albeit
perhaps unconscious) to see this as polarizing. I agree in content
it was not that black and white. "I am not quite ready
to agree with the concept that all good and evil are equal manifestations
of the source energy."
Heavens!
I didn't mean anything close to that... and I would have never
reached the same conclusion. No doubt that is because we currently
stand at different points on the wheel and have accumulated
different life experiences. Yes, in my experience there certainly
are Higher Laws, and, they are dynamic, energy in flux, such
as the seasons. I experience the concepts of *Good* and *Evil*
as human constructs, not Source. Love I experience as a Source
energy but don't think
it is to be confused with 'good'. Evil, as my Teachers have
defined it, is a Middle World construct and is comprised of
the unmanaged impulses and energies of mankind. (I'm not going
to get into entities here). (Hey those of you with experience
in this please jump in!). I also don't see a linear process
here; linear is also a manmade construct, especially European.
I see the energy flow as dynamic and spiraling, give, take,
death, birth.
The
other thing about good and bad is that they are a function of
*judgment*. I think the Medicine Wheel and the Dancing of it,
is about learning *Observation* and *Discernment*, recognizing
energy patterns, recognizing the movement of energy patterns
and the consequences of energy patterns and doing this in the
role of Observer. The human qualities come in when we seek to
apply our knowledge.
Fritj
of Capra is a physicist as were several of the others I mentioned.
I'm sorry I haven't read the Conversations With God (did read
reviews but it didn't call to me); LOL, you caught the influence
Barbara Marx Hubbard. A grad school favorite of mine.
"What
emotions are defended and hidden that have not already been
dealt with? This I cannot say I truly understand and both you
and Cinnamon keep bringing this up. There are times things are
not said because the only outcome would be to hurt another.
But they can usually be brought out by addressing in another
way. This sounds like the Inca medicine of the southern quadrant
where the skin of a snake is shed and person is reborn. But
I do not think the negativities my life are harbored. They are
dealt with and one returns to balance (through admission and
forgiveness). Possibly I need work in this area but I can’t
imagine what I haven’t dealt with or what I have hidden?
I am pretty open."
Actually
I wasn't addressing this to you personally. I don't know you
other than for your presentation on the board and you sound
like you really work at this. (Kudos!) I was speaking generically.
I will say I have never met anyone who doesn't have blind spots
because *unconscious* is just that. And even when we know ourselves
well it is easy to slip back into old patterns. For example,
let’s say there is a situation where I have a feeling that
I am not aware of, I can get a clue because I will hear myself
reverting to intellectualism as a defense and I know I'm doing
that if I'm speaking abstractly, citing theorems and in nothing
less than a six syllable utterances of syllogistic nonsense!
What a tidy way to keep something at a Safe Distance. I think
you can get the picture.
Emotions
that are defended against can be anything we don't feel safe
expressing and so hide or project out of our awareness, or on
to someone else, or build a false self to present so as not
to deal with it. They don't have to be bad or negative, it can
also relate to caring, empathy, loveingness. There are some
fairly complex psychological theories that address this (LOL,
don't worry I'm not going there!). I think the key is that it
is anything we aren't safe expressing; for some this means hiding
anger, for some it may be expressing nothing but anger, for
some it means being logical and reasonable All The Time (avoiding
anger). That's just one example.
In shamanism
pre se the term Wounded Healer is often referred to, so in that
sense the snake shedding the skin is a right on tie in to this
concept, because the shaman dies to their own ego through a
trial that strips the defenses. (Also known as a Shaman's Death).
They may have a longer
trip after that to become fully conscious of how their personality
interfaces with personal interactions. Ideally a Shaman's Death
keeps the personality out of healing activities and teaches
compassion.
I suspect
what may be helpful to society today are personalities that
can own when they become enraged and jealous and victimized
by seeing others who have what they perceive as more desirable
resources and chose to *change* how they *perceive* (think about)
the situation and thereby literally call their Spirit back from
a belief that it doesn't serve to be invested in. This, by the
way, would be a disowned part of the self, if one were not conscious
of it (as I think most aren't. Indeed paradoxically, as we as
a society have celebrated diversity, I see more an more people
relying on membership in a given group to justify entitlement
to victim status and expecting to be rewarded for it).
I think
we only need to look to the Holy Wars currently being declared
to see an example of this. And who among us at some time has
not felt, on an individual level, wronged by someone and want
to claim Justice for our belief? These are the individual Jihads
that must be examined, or if not, will be left to contribute
to the collective unconscious and the quality of the cleansing
and transformation that is spoken of in Native teachings.
"Personally,
to me fear is generated more from a lack of knowledge that from
addressing the unwanted. I believe what you are trying to convey
(correct me if I am wrong) is that if you focus on that which
is unwanted you can in fact bring it into existence by the energy
being pump towards it through thought. My response is possibly
but only if the resultant is not dealt with. Fact can also shatter
the monster created from imagination and the unknown."
Yes, you
have understood that correctly. What we fear we will eventually
call to us so that we may face it. I've witnessed this time
and again and it is my experience. Among the things we may fear
is the Unknown and that which is Unknowable. And certainly,
for many, that which cannot be controlled with knowledge or
force or title or whatever. For many this comes as the Face
of Death, so religion is created to provide 'facts' and comfort.
The 'facts' are Faith based. Humans want answers. The Divine
asks us for Trust (which is experience based). Great Mystery
is an unknowable Void out of which Creation flows, as co-creators,
if we cannot tolerate ambiguity, silence, nothingness, no-facts,
no answers, then we blasphemy imagination by creating fear monsters.
I can tell you that when I have done out of body travel it is
as an Observer and when I start to analyze the whole thing falls
to pieces and I come crashing back. It's a lesson.
Well, this
has been great fun, certainly forces me to choose my words carefully!
And now, back to Real Life....and the bills, and the cleaning,
and yardwork...
Earthwalker:
Winddancer,
Thanks for the comments. I have grouped my thoughts and comments
into two groups since I feel they pretty much address the same
things. I have bulleted your comments for ease of reference:

“I suspect what may be helpful to society today are personalities
that can own when they become enraged and jealous and victimized
by seeing others who have what they perceive as more desirable
resources and chose to *change* how they *perceive* (think about)
the situation and thereby literally call their Spirit back from
a belief that it doesn't serve to be invested in. Taking responsibility
for our choices is the management of spiritual power. This especially
applies to the non-tangibles such as our thoughts, attitudes,
and belief systems."
* “Let’s
say there is a situation where I have a feeling that I am not
aware of, I can get a clue because I will hear myself reverting
to intellectualism as a defense and I know I'm doing that if
I'm speaking abstractly, citing theorems and in nothing less
than a six syllable utterances of syllogistic nonsense!”
* “Emotions
that are defended against”
* “we don't
feel safe expressing and so hide or project out of our awareness,
or on to someone else, or build a false self to present so as
not to deal with it.”
To me and in general
i believe that most adults address the above every time they
are angry, frustrated, or insecure. How else to you resolve
the anger and frustration, and let it go? Why wouldn’t
you just indicate to go to lunch and discuss the differences.
In addition for those times when we are insecure and need to
pretend, why wouldn’t you just say you don’t know
but will find out. Although I agree with you that some individuals
do perform at this level, sometimes I think we make the simple
much too complicated (albeit this is from my perspective and
based on individuals I interact with most of whom are very technically
orientated). It seems to me that all of the above is just honesty
with ourselves and others. It may take work but is doable by
most of the population as long as they are in a supportive environment
which appreciates uniqueness.
Group II is more
difficult; “I also don't see a linear process here; linear
is also a manmade construct, especially European. I see the
energy flow as dynamic and spiraling, give, take, death, birth.”
“The other
thing about good and bad is that they are a function of *judgment*.”
“I think
the Medicine Wheel and the Dancing of it, is about learning
*Observation* and *Discernment*, recognizing energy patterns,
recognizing the movement of energy patterns and the consequences
of energy patterns and doing this in the role of Observer. The
human qualities come in when we seek to apply our knowledge.”
“Among the
things we may fear is the Unknown and that which is Unknowable”.
Some people may but it is also the exciting part of life which
keeps us out of ruts.
“The Divine
asks us for Trust (which is experience based).”
The divine must
either be experienced or interpreted is interpreted. Since I
do not readily trust others interpretation I therefore must
trust my own.. These differences to me are much more complicated
and it can lead to a quagmire (as least for me). While there
are several thoughts here, to me, they come down to one interactive
process. Energy is a fluid process but can only be manifested
(possibly a better word is observed ) in some type of linear
form (not necessarily only in this realm), since energy can
only be observed as a function of time. However, I believe we
have evolved or are evolving from beings that “do what
you must do to survive” into beings that “can experience
the wholeness of existence through
mind and spirit”. Mind
being the linear component and spirit the component of energy.
I think this goes
along with Cinnamons thoughts that other realms also exist of
differing densities of energy but still functioning within a
time construct. Let me ask a further question. Can the divine
(source energy) be observed if manifestations in some type of
linear time do not exist? I believe the answer must be no if
we are all part of the same source energy, each entity just
representing differing manifestations of it..
This falls into
what David Neal Walsh is suggesting and the biggest stumbling
block for me. He is basically stating that all manifestation
of the divine are just that, manifestations, with no judgement;
they exist as the only way the divine can experience free will
or manifestation of itself. Still, I feel, there is something
that is missing from this premise. I cannot agree or believe
that all manifestations of the source energy are equal. How
can this be stated without implying judgement which is limited
to linear time and western philosophy? I hope some of you can
see the quagmire I get into by this type of circular thought.
Possibly this is where just observation, trust etc. needs to
come in. I do know that I believe all manifestations are not
equal but how to state that without implying judgement is difficult
for me. Is it just the density of energy as opposed to mass
in each manifestation? But even then you are left with the Dali
Lama manifestation be equal to that of a serial killer. It doesn't
work for me! I am missing something major and it’s probably
obvious to all of you; but I can be blind at times! Anyway,
I am looking forward to the medicine wheel.
WindDancer:
Hi
Earthwalker,
I read
your comments and certainly respect the place you currently
occupy. Having said that, my experience of the world and humanity
feels quite different from your position. The question, "Why"
isn't relevant to my paradigm. I don't see people taking what
you seem to feel is the easy or logical way to solve emotional
issues. I evidence this on the daily news and what I experience
in my profession. I see our society (and others) self-destructing
because of the inability to do anything as simple as take responsibility
for their daily choices (unless that means what flavor of Starbucks
will sound impressive today). We have school shootings, snipers,
an unelected president and the dismantling of the Constitution,
unprecedented corporate greed, we are about to launch a costly
war, and frankly, while these things are explainable with psychological
hypothesis, psychology has lost its credibility to the like
of Dr. Laura and Dr. Phil and so, the so called 'solutions'
are spun to fit preexisting agendas and celebrity. Well, all
the more I can say is we build our own cages and we can only
be free when we take the risk of flying out the door that is
already open.
"Energy
is a fluid process but can only be manifested (possibly a better
word is observed ) in some type of linear form (not necessarily
only in this realm), since energy can only be observed as a
function of time."
Coyote
trap, that is a Fact of hard science, it is not a fact of shamanism.
*S* let's revisit this after you have a bit more experience.
Part
1
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Libraries
are on this row
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INDEX
Page 3
(Main Section, Medicine Wheel, Native Languages &
Nations, Symbology)
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INDEX
Page 5
(Sacred Feminine & Masculine, Stones & Minerals)
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©
Copyright: Cinnamon Moon & River WildFire Moon (Founders.)
2000-date
All rights reserved.
Site
constructed by Dragonfly
Dezignz 1998-date
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