Sacred Feminine &
Sacred Masculine

Page 6

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Finding a Way to Live a Healed & Healthy Masculine
By Wynsong

This is going to be a freewheeling journey through whatever the title means to me...
Please feel free to join in with your own insights...and experiences... I journey my own stuff in my own journal...so you won't be 'hijacking' my thread...
And I'm not sure that I can only do the masculine in isolation...as I honestly don't think it can exist in isolation....but I could be wrong...
And I'm going to start by looking at it from what I call a mythic place...from the stories that influence the cultures that I come from...which have been patriarchal for the last 6,000 years or so...and were more matriarchal before that...
And I'm going to look at it, as it plays out in my own stories...
And I'm going to be looking at what the masculine creates...and what is destroyed...because I really want to look at all of it...
And I'm going to be honoring it all...The light masculine...the dark masculine, and ever expression of masculine in between...
And I was pushed to start today, because there is a headline in my newspaper about plunging necklines, and a female analyst stated that since Adam and Eve we have been conditioned.....AND I'm so tired of having one set of mythology used to describe all human behavior...There are cultures where breast are not the path to sin and degradation of society, people... where human beings walk about mostly undressed by our standards...and it doesn't create problems for the males within the societies to function in that society. They obviously didn't eat the danged apple, and so they can do naked in the Garden, quite nicely...and without embarrassment.

Today, I'm going to have my head all but shaved.
It is in preparation for the chemo that is to come, that will result in my hair falling out, and my living bald for a bit.
Again...in our society...more men than women are bald...therefore, between being bald and having no breast (especially as seen from the right) I expect that there will be people who are confused about which gender I am, on meeting me....
And that alone will confuse them, as to how they should act towards me....
I expect this because, I know people who have experienced it.
And the confusion that it creates around how they should behave around me, has surrounded me my entire life.

My Personal Story (which is unfinished)...
You see...when I was young, my dad wouldn't let me do anything, "like a girl"....
When I was young....the textbooks said...that running long distances was psychologically and physically damaging to women....
When I was young....despite living in a huge metropolis, I could not play softball (boys only leagues - no girls leagues available)...

When I was young...I could coach my boyfriend to throw the javelin, but I could not throw it in competition...or do the triple jump (see the bit about running)...
When I was young, my dad wanted me to compete like a 'boy'...to throw, run and win like a boy....
But society didn't have a place for that.
When I was still young, but not as young, and I beat a boyfriend at a game of 10 pin bowling (here in Canada, at that time, we only had 5 pin...so I'd never 10 pin bowled before...and he was football player at the university, and had grown up on the border, so he had 10 pin bowled his whole life)...my mother said..."Penny, let him win."
And later, when my now ex-husband washed his own shirts one day...and announced it as he went upstairs...she turned to me and said urgently..."You need to take better care of him."

Yup...there have been masculine/feminine issues in my life ...since I came in....
And My Karmic Stories...(and of course they aren't finished either...)
And if I go back through past lives...they are there too.
In my past lives (the ones I've seen fairly clearly)...I've been male a lot...and I've died violently a lot.... I've died because I lived in Roman times and was a foot soldier and the lover of a superior, and I loved and wanted to love a woman, who was pregnant with my child... ...He didn't like that...so I died fairly young that lifetime.
I've died at the point of a spear as a crazed and angry male, who was so hurt by the loss of his own family, by his inability to protect that family...that he went on his own killing rampage, dealing out the hurt and craziness that he himself had suffered...
I died lots of obscure lifetimes as well...obscured from my own memory, except that it was a hard life of servitude and powerlessness...and those lifetimes were male and female...
The female lifetimes (that are clearest)

I died as a child... Unable to stay...unable to stop those who loved me from being hurt by my passing...
And my Ancestral stories....(and these ones aren't done yet either, as we are all still playing out the patterns)....
Of strong women, who married strong men.
Who had children together...and then of men, who then found themselves unable to speak their truth to these strong women...who found they could not easily protect these strong women,
who do everything themselves...who have the opportunity to live emasculated...,
or to die young...or to find their voice and meet these strong women as equals and stand in the storms that can follow the meeting of two strong fronts.... And mostly the men,
in my herstory did not go down that path...they loved quietly...supported from a more passive place...or died,
created a place for themselves around providing, and let the women do the rest.

They let their women shine...and everyone paid a price for the way in which the energy dynamics played out.
My mother always said, that when I was born, the angels parted the clouds,
and said "Look out below, here she comes" ... she always meant it with love...but it was also a testament to the fact that where I go, upheaval tended to follow.

Thus, Hurricane Penny was born...and isn't it interesting, that they are just now starting to name tropical storms and hurricanes with masculine as well as feminine names...
(And I got a surname through marriage and a spirit name that automatically makes people think
of wind.)
I grew up out of my stories...and gave birth to an all-male household....and I played out the role of Strong women that my family stories tell...and my ex...well at the same age as his own father died...he died to me as a husband...and began the journey of birthing himself into my children's lives in a more meaningful way for the first time....
And since I started to consciously walk a shamanic path....(South American, rather than North American, for those who get confused by some of my references)....it has been about finding a way to live a healthy balanced masculine and feminine.
To live whole...and wholly...to be able to take all energies,
despite their polarity and allow the energies to merge and morph and create and destroy and recreate. . .

I have to run...because it is time to start my walk into the ceremony of letting go of my long hair.... I'll be back ... to talk about what...?
The Judeo/Christian mythology that is the shadow upon which my family, karmic and personal herstory is built....
To look at what I've done to shift the energetics of my Karmic/and ancestral journeys...

I'll see which way the wynd blows...when I come back.
Munay ki

Eagle Singing:
Hi Wynsong! I enjoyed this. I want to take this in. I’ll be back though.

I found your post interesting, but I am curious: how do you define a strong woman?

This issue is of interest to me right now as I am looking at the masculine/feminine role models I had as a youngster. Many would perceive that the women in my mother’s family are strong women: they make sure their voice is heard and "rule the roost" so to speak.

In Islam, women are often perceived to be powerless, but I'm not so sure that that is really the case..

One thing that has stood out to me in my own journeys in coming to a point of balance about my Roman Catholic upbringing, is that notions of women that come from the bible are a Roman interpretation, not a Judeo-Christian. The Adam and Eve story, and the role of women in the bible generally has (probably deliberately) been misinterpreted in the Roman Church, and despite what other, later, Christian sects may say, their interpretation is largely that of the Roman Church (though in many cases, in an even more severe, less truthful, interpretation).

Certainly, masculine and feminine have. So to me notions of woman in the Judeo-Christian story come from a European perspective, not from the eastern perspectives that inspired the Bible. I suspect that a similar thing has happened in Islam, to the extent that the Roman Empire influenced Islam.

I'm dashing through right now, but I will be back!

The man that is the face of the version of Shamanic path I follow, spoke of the patriarchal nature of our mythology...Of the ways that the stories on page 2 of Genesis have colored our sense of abundance...(okay ...page 3 of my bible)

" And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of they wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, :thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; 'in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; in the sweat of they face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return....

And I heard that story...I also heard his stories (based in the security that he was an archeologist and so would know this stuff) that the matriarchal societies...that pre-existed the patriarchal sweep through Europe some 6000 + years ago...were more peaceful...that there were no wars that swept up and involved the entire areas that we have seen involved since the patriarchal sweep....

So I heard....because it suited the stories I was living with as a women born in the 50's and having grown up and fought the good fight to create some equality between the sexes....I heard that Patriarchy is bad...and Matriarchy is good....I heard it, because it suited my stories to hear it...

And in my personal journey, I could point to all the ways that my femaleness had been held back by the maleness of the other half of the species...I could teach, but not do in so many areas...

And it wasn't until I went to the North on the Medicine wheel that I walked, into the Mythic levels of vibration...having cleared myself of some of the chains of my personal stories (South) and my Ancestral and Karmic stories (West), that I could step into Infinity...and start to see that this wasn't just about me personally (past, present and future), but that I was as caught in the chains of the stories of society (the consensual realities of communities within communities) in which my personal stories had grown.

And in this direction...I was given a Soul Retrieval...in which the original wound was...a small girl looking shaman like out of the corner of her eyes...to the left...watching a black cloaked Father Christmas type figure moving in and out of the space towards her (surging forward so he could be seen...and then retreating)...The Father Christmas figure would surge forward against a vortex, that was trying to suck him out of the energetic field, and then start to fade as it caught him...., but in the first description of the wound, the vortex wasn't seen...and so... in being told about this wound...I and all the shaman around me...saw the black clad Father Christmas figure as the 'bad' guy...and the girl as the innocent victim....

(when I asked questions of them, from that perspective, I got no answers....little wonder)

Ahh the Victim, Perpetrator, Caregiver/Rescuer triangle....I've lived there so long...

And it wasn't until the end of that week, when we were doing some more work on the journey to rewrite the contracts of that soul Retrieval, that I became sorrowful as I watched the Father Christmas figure being sucked out...and the girl never moving, just watching...and maybe feeling glad to see it happening....

And over the course of the next few months and years...I watched that scene repeated...as the feminine sat and let the masculine be sucked out.... SHE just sat and watched....and did nothing...well maybe not nothing...she saw the masculine as perpetrator, and feeling gleeful to see it happening, is doing something... (and in my family that kind of energetic happening, would also engender some undercutting of any balance that the figure would gain, as we would commented (under our breath of course- so as not to have to take personal responsibility for it)...at how much like them that behavior was...with the underlying belief, of who would want to go through life THAT WAY?)

It wasn't one of the moments on my journey when I was overcome with joy at the discoveries I was making....I was feeling a bit like a bitch...

And I looked at the stories of my family and my past lives and my own life....and saw that same energy... actually gifted with watching flashbacks of multitudes of times I'd done just as the little girl was doing...watching...with some joy, possibly, and doing nothing, maybe believing that there was nothing I could do in my small powerless position...that they'd put me in... when nothing was not all of my options. Maybe convincing myself that some version of "divine justice" was acted out...

The masculine was being destroyed by the feminine...through inaction...through the justifiable desire for retribution for all her wounds...in her victimhood, she was becoming the perpetrator...

And I most assuredly can list all the ways that the feminine had been victimized by the masculine...I was weaned on that list....and grew into the new age of masculine victimhood...

So I was sitting with a bunch of perpetrating victims who were caught in a loop of action and inaction...of retribution and passive aggressive poison...

And for some people the North was so sweet. And it was sweet for me too, to step into Infinity...to start to see that all that happens wasn't directed at me personally...that Shift happens...and that it may feel like it was happening to me, but in reality it is just happening, and that I get to write my story around it.

And the beginning of finding peace between the masculine and feminine within and around me...was begun...

I am actively creating and living a new map...within...and therefore without...

That isn't based on one part of the energy being dominant...all the time....

It isn't about Power.. ... it is about....

I'll get back to you on that one...because Love...and Creation didn't work by themselves...

and if I have Power on one side...can I have Love and Co-Creation...on the other...

The mathematician in me, is having problems with the balance of that equation...

I'll sit with that...and see if I can find the balance within

Munay Ki

if one set is POWER...and the opposite set is LOVE and CREATION...

then where the two sets meet and merge...(and if I look at that from the masculine I might say where the boundaries of POWER and LOVE and CREATION are destroyed and something new is born)...then the subset that is created as the two sets overlap would maybe read

The POWER to LOVE and CREATE ...


Munay Ki

Glad you are enjoying the read, Eagle Singing....I don't know whether to hope that something resonates for you are not. I will if it is part of your journey to live balance and healthy masculine and feminine energy, and you aren't currently able to do so.

Wolf, it definitely is not about whatever the truth is...it is about how whatever stories we took from all that is taught to us as we grow up...(subliminally and not) lives in us...how it is expressed by us, when we aren't even aware it is there...

A strong woman, by definition for me...and for me is all that matters in my stories...is a women who ultimately can do it all, and does...or thinks she does, at the very least, she'll die trying. A strong woman, isn't limited by outside influences to achieve her own goals, and is often taking care of everyone she loves at the same time....and maybe doing volunteer work for those she doesn't actually know. She is competent at all she does...and has a clear idea of how it can best be done, so people let her do it...some people seek her out, so she will do it. She will have her hand in on anything she considers to be important...and if she doesn't consider it to be important, trust me, it probably isn't....and it is funny how often that seems to be the focus of the men in her life....that unimportant stuff.

OH>>>>and she never plays the weak damsel in distress card, EVER...to get something done for her. All images of herself as victim are likely suppressed...to the point of such denial, she begins to believe her own press releases about how strong she is.
By the way...this is an accurate definition/description of how I used to do strong woman...it isn't
a healthy feminine...trust me, I know that, and it isn't a healthy masculine either....
And when I lived that, it was amazing how many people and situations I attracted to myself that needed my 'strength'...I love it when a self-fulfilling prophecy comes together.

In my stories…my personal ones...the males in my/our lives, loved our strength, and they have their own (or it is unlikely we would have been attracted to them as a mate). They were often intelligent, funny, passionate....and they usually represented our shadow aspects perfectly...My ex was concerned with how people saw us, and made financial security a complete priority, and was completely sports oriented (I was a competitive athlete, and my degree is in Physical and Health Education or Kinesiology) and yet he did the sports thing so fully, I don't even watch sports anymore, except to support my kids....I didn't have to worry about any of those aspects of my life...how I fit in, how I would be able to pay for stuff when I was 95, or competing...he did all that for me...and I did all things related to running the house, including those finances...and the boys and the families and the friends, and the Spirituality.
We fit Jung's description of why people marry completely...we married our Shadows...so we didn't have to live them.
He can tell you all the ways I de-masculated him...and I can tell you all the ways he diminished and demeaned me...
None of the stories will be the actual facts or one provable truth...they will be his truth...they will be my truth....they may even be truth as seen through the eyes of another...Just stories... He is all about what it is to be a man....so I'm going out on a limb here and going to suggest he (at least back then) was not able to have a relationship with his feminine, except in being a powerless victim to my strength...and his mom's before me....
AND I was all about the masculine too (outwardly...lol) ...in a just because I'm a women, doesn't mean I can't do all that you can do...kind of masculine way.... So I didn't have a good relationship with my feminine either...

Little wonder, when I saw the feminine as a powerless, victim of the patriarchal stories I'd been birthed and weaned on...
AS a mother to my children, I was fiercely Mother...She Bear mother, and people described me as the archetypical Earth Mother...and I can tell you, that even in that feminine, I was able to add a masculine spin to it.

So in my family, the patterns continued...Bob started to see me as he saw his mother...and on levels he can't even begin to give voice to, he now has a need to save his boys from me...so they won't be damaged by my over mothering. Even though he acknowledges that because he himself abdicated all parental responsibilities (maybe so he wouldn't have to confront one of my main passions face to face) that he at least is partially responsible for my having to "over" mother.... AND...I was trying to save the boys from becoming their father...
Lousy place to be a child (of any sex)....caught in the tug of war between two parents who didn't have a clear balance within themselves...
So then...I abdicated...and he over mothered.....
You can always count on the pendulum...to at least visit the center briefly....

So now... I'm finding a space to be comfortable with the masculine and feminine in equality and creative flow.... I sit with the sun and its energy...a sit with the moon and its energy... I watch life and see it differently...watching the flow of energy from Yin to Yang and back again...
And it is beautyfull that way...

Time for breakfast...who knew I had all that to say... Munay ki


Wynsong, I found your post very interesting: the third para perfectly describes the "strong women" in my mother's family. In all but one case, this has been to their detriment. I think in many respects the aunt (by marriage) I stay with in Ireland (where I am off next week) and my aunt in Canada are, to me, definitions of a strong woman. Both accepts that people aren't perfect, neither kick up a fuss nor try and force people around to them to their opinion, they seem to be able to accept that people get things wrong, and carry on with what she has to do, i.e. the important stuff, quietly and without criticism, regardless. In Kabballah, the chief word associated with the feminine principle is Understanding. For the Masculine, it is Knowledge. It strikes me that Understanding is to be able to do what is right, regardless of pressures in the mundane, In many respects, from a basis of understanding, I see women of my grandmother's generation as being stronger than the woman from my mother's generation and much stronger than the women of my own and those coming forward. To me Understanding implies an innate knowledge of the true order and I feel that that has been lost in women over the last half century. I believe that, at one time, and I'm talking particularly about the time of the Women's suffrage movement, that women did need to make a stand: to ensure that their innate understanding did populate the minds of the decision makers in our societies, but looking at my parents, it's almost as if that process went too far and women wanted to become men: not in a healthy balanced sorta way, but in an unhealthy, masculine-biased sorta way. Instead of adding balance to our societies by that innate understanding, women seemed to want to copy the unhealthy male model and become dominant in the way that Knowledge uninformed by Understanding made western, and indeed any society infiltrated by such western values, societies unhealthy. It may be different in the States and Canada, though, to a degree, I feel that this notion comes from a Consumerist viewpoint that was born in the US, but certainly British Woman have become parodies of the unhealthy male stereo-type.

General comment:
I think one of the reason for this is that notions of the healthy masculine principle of Knowledge are difficult to philosophize in our modern ear and easy to get wrong and I think this is largely a result of the Roman church's dominance in the acquisition of material knowledge throughout the first millennia of the Christian European/Western era. Indeed beyond the wealthiest in our society is pervaded almost into the 20th Century. The invention of printing press did begin to change things as poorer people could own books, but they were still very expensive and the majority of the populace could not read or write well into the nineteenth century: in researching my father's family tree, I found some in the 1800's who could not even sign their own name on marriage records. They were not the exception looking through the many pages of records I had to look through to find my family's records.

The Roman church was the most powerful organization on earth at the start of the second Christian millennia. It was the repository of material knowledge, so Knowledge became associated with external power. In the Kabbalah, the masculine principle of Knowledge has a very different meaning. It is not a force to be exerted without, but a force to be used to bring that innate understanding of the feminine principle within. Knowledge is perceived as a force that enables a man to comprehend the world around him, and his place in it, not to subsume it. The masculine principle enables a man to see a tree and know that it can be used in many ways to make his situation more comfortable, not to see another man (or woman)and know this is a means to make his position more comfortable. In many respects, this is where the feminine principle of Understanding comes in: it informs Knowledge what is the right order of things. The church's demonization of women effectively left man to grow ever further from that Understanding, whilst at the same time, demonizing women as a whole: to the point where man's own innate understanding, free of the feminine principle, became demonized too: once that happened all notions of "right" seemed to become lost; the slave-trade from Africa seems to be a case in point of showing that loss of Understanding of the natural order and how we got to where we are today: living in world where the gap between those who have (the developed world) and those who have not (the under-developed world) is so great. That this is a Roman invention becomes clear when one looks at the Celtic church in Europe were there was an equal balance between male and female saints and how that changed after the 600's when the Roman Church began to take precedence over the Celtic.

I think it is in the balancing energies thread that Cinn speaks of the joining of the man and woman to continue that state of balance by constantly circulating the interaction between the masculine and feminine principles that I call Knowledge and Understanding, so that both males and females can share of the value of each other's medicine. But in some respects, without that basic understanding of those energy flows, I wonder if that process has not itself become part of the problem: in that the misunderstood (whether deliberate or out of ignorance) notion of feminine medicines as a passive force has not in fact led to the subjugation of women and so, therefore, Understanding that has led us to where we are today: and therefore does this not say that the process alone cannot create a situation whereby Knowledge and Understanding can be exchanged between the sexes?

Getting back to where I started, and my journey watching my parents, in many respects, my father's Journey was influenced by his mother's Journey and here we come to where I feel society as a whole plays a bigger part in our stories. We don't know what happened to my paternal grandfather: there are stories but nothing more, but my grandmother was left to bring my father up on her own for the early part of his life. She married again, and had two more children, but by all accounts she was still very much alone with three young children. To be in this situation in the 1930's in a relatively poor area of the north of England cannot of been easy for her. I can just remember my gran, who died when I was about twelve, but what I have learned of her story I have only learned relatively recently: and that is that she was a lady with a lot of Understanding: this I remember: but what I didn't realize is that she was also a bright lady who was able to use her initiative to rear her three children. In many respects, I can see the comparison with my mother: almost like their drive to bring the next generation forward was their over-riding drive. But there, apparently, the situation ends. By all accounts, my gran never complained about her situation; my mother, on the other hand, never stopped complaining: one did the task willingly, the other begrudgingly.

I realized quite recently that my parent's roles were reversed in my seven years before my parents split. At that time, in most families in the early 70's, mother still stayed at home and great emphasis was still placed on child-rearing as a valuable occupation: in many respects more valuable than the father's principle occupation of earning money; as that occupation was purely aimed at providing for the family: in other words, his occupation was almost secondary to the principle role of family of child-rearing. But in my early childhood household, it was my father who was there when I came home from school, and my mother who arrived in at 5pm from work. My dad was a policeman, and by the time I came along my dad was desk-sergeant working a regular 6am-2pm shift. By the same token, my mum was a factory nurse and occupational health officer by that time, so she worked 9-5. Yeh, it was mum who got me ready for the childminders/school in the morning, but my dad who picked me up, made meals (as an ex-army-chef, he did all the cooking), read bedtime stories, my dad baked on days off, was more likely to be there in school holidays for some reason and my dad did the family shopping on a Saturday. Like I said, my mum came in from work after 5pm. It strikes me that dad Understood what a child and family needed, and it was my mum who seemed to me to play the Power-games role, particularly once the end-game of their marriage started to play out. There were elements that were normal for the time: dad decorated and did the garden and mum did washing and ironing. I know that my mother's father was a very dominant figure, and his epilepsy played a big part in my mum's life and her perception of her mother's struggle: a struggle she was determined not to repeat. In many respects, both my grandmothers seemed to Understand, and perhaps my parents both suffered in different ways as a result: my mother determined not to (as she saw it) suffer in the way her mother did, and my father perhaps trying to emulate that quality, but being born a man, struggling with that: which coupled with my mother's power-plays, invariably led my father to lash out, unable to command the Knowledge he needed to respond to my mother's. It seems to me now that between them my mother and father possessed the qualities necessary to rear a family, and to assist each other become whole, but the roles were reversed. Perhaps they found each other to find that balance within themselves, but somehow, perhaps, their reversed qualities simply emphasized their failings of their own sex's medicine. I don't know much of my father's journey after their divorce, but from what I do know, he seemed to retreat further into Understanding. perhaps he was My mother was always described by her colleagues as a very caring person, but that was her job: and it was that job that gave her her prestige and allowed her to continue her power Journey.

After my parent's divorce my mother had to respond to both roles: perhaps something she struggled with, and perhaps the divorce, by necessity, emphasized her belief that she needed Knowledge, which to me very much equates to material success and the power that comes from that, more than she needed Understanding. I grew up with notions of material Knowledge ingrained in me, so notions of Understanding were very much secondary concerns and not something I learnt from my mother. My mother had determined that Understanding led to what she perceived as suffering, and instilled that in me, particularly aspects of suffering she believed my father brought to her life.

I now wonder if this is why I have had so many female teachers in my spiritual life: to assist me in learning Understanding. If I look back at many lessons from the last few years, particularly the repetition of my early life with my neighbor's arguments and, more recently, divorce. I see that I was learning to Understand. In many respects this was not only about healing my own Journey, but about learning about healing others too. I see a deep reflection of my own Journey in their (now 23) son's. Being able to stand back and witness this Journey, I have been able to see where I needed to heal.

But I have been very much aware that I could not using Knowledge (i.e. my own experience of the son's Journey) to heal: healing can only come from Understanding and until he learns that Understanding, as I have had to do, he cannot heal. There may have been other aspects of my parents' Journey I have missed or that I have yet to fully Understand, but I have gained enough Understanding to be able to move on from an aspect of my life that haunted me. That left me with a big question in my life: how do I right these imbalances. How do I bring forward a positive image of myself based on healthy aspects of masculine and feminine? I feel I have learnt a great deal about Understanding, but what about Knowledge? What is Knowledge in the sense of the masculine principle?

In Kabbalah it is described as the Creative Impulse: the impulse to bring forth Creation. It is not thought, as it is more instinctive than that: perhaps instinct is the word I am looking for: yeh I have heard it described as such. It is basically something that is simply "Known" (hence it is described as Knowledge). On the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, it is the first emanation from Primal Will (Creator/Spirit/God) But Understanding is needed to bring forth the Creation. Knowledge is described as the seed that is implanted in (intuitive) Understanding that brings forth life. if you think about it, when we Journey, we often go to places that, to our mortal mind, make no sense, but somehow we understand. Maybe our minds need "time" to Understand. Maybe this is where notions of time come from. Understanding is the second emanation from Primal Wisdom, implying that as the bible tells us, Mankind was made "in the image of God" with the instinctive unthinking, ability to Create. In kabalistic language, everything has this instinct and it is the guiding force that created our Universe and continues to create on a daily basis in each and every organism, no matter how innate or how simple. That sounded daft to me when I first read it, cause I couldn't see how a rock for instance can create in and of itself. But when I thought about it, a rock is worn down via the forces of wind and water and sometimes fire and eventually becomes soil. Soil plays a part in Creation in that it sustains life directly. But stone, like many other seemingly innate forms, also has Understanding: it understands it's body is to be used by man to for many things that sustain or enhance life: like shelter or art: ever heard a stone saying it doesn't want to be a part of a house? Stone Understands that this is only a temporary state of being and that one day it will, of itself, help to create life, and that one day, after it has being split many times more, it will, as dust, form part of a new life-form.

In the World of Form, instinctive Knowledge, coupled with Understanding, has allowed Mankind to create many things, but we have, in many cultures, lost that ability to use both. I realized some time ago that the chapter in Genesis that says "he created them male and female" cannot be correct, because it came before he created Adam. From this realization came the realization that this was to do with our spirit, not our physical form, and I remembered the Knowledge and Understanding of Kabbalah. Shortly after I read of the translation error in the Genesis 1:2 and that a true interpretation was "he created them masculine and feminine". That these two spiritual elements pre-existed the Creation (of Adam) implied that both were inherent in that Creation.

I've been single for over ten years now. Yeh, I've had a few flings, but something instinctively told me I needed to be single. In Kabbalah, we are created by coming down the Tree of Life, and in doing so we Remember that this is not our true state of Being. Our Journey, if we choose to take it up, is to traverse back up the Tree of Life whilst in human form: and regain that lost Understanding that our human conditioning has created. There are many "Worlds" within Kabbalistic philosophy: far too many for us to Understand in one lifetime, so my belief is that we come back again and again to try and perfect our Humanness: create Heaven on Earth as the bible tells us and each time we learn a different aspect of our humanness and each experience (subliminally for the most part) informs the next lifetime. So in any lifetime we may gain Understanding on a particular subject, or if we have been here many lifetimes, we may be able to bring the lessons learnt over those many lifetimes into sharp focus into later lifetimes. But, just as we come to Understanding before we come to Knowledge as we traverse back up the Tree of Life, so we must come to Understanding of what it is we need to create before we can come to Knowledge of how to create and fulfill that need in any lifetime. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion, that, whilst we can assist each other in reaching our goal of Knowledge and Understanding of what we really are, in the end, that is a Journey we can only walk alone as it is a Journey within. If that ability to Understanding is inherent within us all, and we can strip out our cultural conditioning, then why do we need another to assist us: surely we can learn just as much from observation of the world around us? I can't help feel that the "Joining" argument is a hangover from religious ideals that were aimed far more at temporal power than a desire for fulfillment of our potential.

In many respects, religion, and more latterly politics, has created a situation whereby Mankind has not taken responsibility for its individual and group Journey, and I think it is for these reasons that we have forgotten the truth, particularly about Knowledge, and we have sought material Knowledge as a means to power. I think this is true of earliest star-gazers who became the Magicians of later cultures, whose instinctive knowledge initially benefited Mankind, through to the socialist movement in politics. It doesn't matter which "osophy" we use to describe the Beingness of Mankind, or which system of Spiritual Journey, I think we all recognize that we are missing something in our lives. People come along who proclaim to know the answer, and we give away our power for a while or we think we have the answer and we seek power for a while, but the human story shows that no system can give us the answer, we can only seek it out for ourselves. The moment we start to give away that power or responsibility, we ebb and flow between either one aspect or the other and just as we say that the victor writes the history books, so it is with spirituality: the most powerful subverts the less powerful; whether that is matriarchal or patriarchal: and neither gives the full story and leads to unhealthy images of both, as our current patriarchal society has shown. I doubt that it was any different under a matriarchal society. I believe Patriarchal society has made women forget what is important, which created imbalances in men, and I am sure the opposite was the case in a matriarchal society, or else we would still be living under one. To me, Politics is like a microcosm of this: we vote for one party for a while, and they get arrogant, think they do not need our approval, things go wrong, and we show them the door.

Excess seems to be the factor that changes things and tips the balance back in the opposite direction, by reflecting what is wrong. I think it is human nature to not know when we have reached the tipping point: when enough has been done to balance the original imbalance and we go to excess: whether we are speaking of consumerism, woman's suffrage, war and violence or anything else. I think we are at that stage in our personal and human evolution where the tipping point has been past and nature will have to show us the way back to balance.

The spiritual balance of the masculine and feminine energies within us is something we all struggle to achieve (consciously or not). Thank you for this continuing thread, Wynsong, it's a great and very useful topic to ponder and work through. I know the strong woman that can do it all too, I was her for a long time and Stars was there a reaction from family and friends when I refused to carry the weight others were capable of carrying themselves. It was upheaval everywhere. I needed to balance myself though, to stop spending energy uselessly at my own expense so others didn't have to. Once I saw that and began to change my ways my pace eased up. Then I found room for other stuff. LOL It took me a few years to sort all that out, it sure didn't come overnight with the enlightenment, it took effort for me to change me. I was my worst critic and I felt I was failing others because of the conditioning of my environment growing up.

Wolfie, I'd respectfully disagree with you that women are losing strength through the generations. I would like to give you a slightly different perspective on that from a woman's point of view. If you look at the feminist movement you'll see the uproar around it and the 'fight' to be recognized equally. That's what this is about initially…either we fight it inside ourselves or in society or both (usually both). In order for change to take place it called for upheaval of what was no longer valid and then it settled down. That's when Mother Earth had put out the call for her daughters to come home to her and those who heard it responded. They were coming home to their own femininity in its strength but through its weaknesses to find that strength….through the need for equality….balance. Once that was accomplished the 'battle' was over (though I think in many ways we're still fighting for it). I can see where your perception of the generations would give you this impression you hold, the times were different for your grandmother, different again for your mother, and different now for the women of your generation. But that is part of the adjustment process, we have to learn to walk differently too so there is a lot of trial and error in the way we get our bearings with it all. But through those generations we saw the upheaval and the adjustment taking place, adjustment also means that the masculine side of society had to come to embrace this and that continues to be the case too. There was a lot of lip-service but underneath that opinions hadn't fully undergone their metamorphosis. It takes time and it's still in process. The destruction of old norms or images had to come before the restructuring could take place. We're witnessing this today but not just in the physical or mental sense, we're experiencing it emotionally and spiritually too.

In the definition given by the Kabballah where the feminine principle is Understanding and the Masculine is Knowledge we see the spiritual result of that in the balance when it's achieved. Understanding how to use the knowledge we gain brings us to the sacred…the Wisdom. Male or female we all have to find that within ourselves and it is a process of growth that happens over time and through experiencing the events that take place in our lives and how we walk our talk. We do all make mistakes, see things from blind spots at times, clearly at others and it's a giant jigsaw puzzle to piece it all together it seems. Spiritually we as women do tend to innately understand things, we feel through them with our senses by our very nature so I agree with you

that the Understanding implies an innate knowledge…we Know things because we feel the truth in them. If we second-guess ourselves (which is part of that learning curve exercise) we tend to find that we were mistaken to do so. Time and time again we discover this until we stop doing that. It's not always easy for a man to embrace those sensations or accept that women do because they are more physically oriented by their very nature, they have to see things for themselves, feelings are dismissed or kept under control or perceived as invalid often in the way men are reared (or were reared in a patriarchal perspective).

Now for women, as for men, exploring those opposing perspectives and ways of perceiving are very challenging because they go against our basic dominant nature to begin with. Women feeling, men seeing, and being told to do the opposite feels foreign, awkward, and unrealistic-at first. Then bring in the 3rd sex when someone is at home with both of these methods to some degree and it really confuses others as they can't define things, that 3rd sex individual operates from both poles and others feel there is something wrong or not quite right about that. This process in society had to break down so many old taboos and ways of perception. Gay rights, women's rights, civil rights, cultural and social issues were uprooted and now we're finding that in that process things went to extremes and a bit out of balance in that too. It's settled some but still has a long way to go to find the temperance we're searching for. It begins one person at a time too…in each of us…and one by one we find it and then live it and add to the balance of the whole that way.

Women have, traditionally speaking, held the spiritual understanding of the truth while men have held the religious knowledge to enforce it. IMHO. I agree with Wynsong when she said that the matriarchal societies were less war-like in nature (though there were some very war-like ones too) for the most part. They were peaceful and the women understood the roles they played and the leadership…in essence running their social structure much like our grandmothers ran their households. It wasn't for the outward show of power, it was done with rules that sustained the balance and harmony within the home allowing it to function well. When the patriarchal process began that harmony began to be dysfunctional and an imbalance occurred. Not that one way is better than the other either, please don't get me wrong there, it's that in the extreme both are wrong and it takes the union of the two to create the sacred trinity where we live both physically and spiritually in balance with All Our Relations.

During the time of the suffrage movement many believed that women didn't have a soul. They were less than a man and that came from the Original Sin stories. Woman owed life to Man, born of him. Here in the US they had to fight for the vote, then fight for their right to be in society as an equal to man. For many years if a man and woman held the same job you would be guaranteed that the man would earn at least 25% more than the woman because she was still perceived as less deserving. Honoring each other and seeing the equality in ourselves as human beings there is no need to see who deserves more than another when the work done is the same. Society and the general population had to adjust to this and in that adjustment we had to adjust ourselves and our spiritual as well as religious beliefs.

When the Earth Mother began calling her daughters home we can look at the Old Religion prophecy unfolding. For generations the ways of the Old Religion had to fall back into the shadows and they were recorded by the women and kept in a Book of Shadows…the knowledge

and understanding became family tradition as it was handed down secretly. But in that there was a prophecy of a time that would come where the truth could be revealed again. Now this wasn't just limited to the witchcraft or pagan traditions, it was found cross-culturally and is evident in Native teachings too. The time for sharing the hidden or sacred teachings came about at the same time as the women's movement began to develop. Why? Because there was a need for it and a need to see the truth resided in all traditions equally valid. The equality that came in so many different guises had to touch every aspect of society and every person in it. Those who did not feel called to serve that would fight it, and even those called to serve struggled to understand at first. Spiritually the Great Mother instructed, impressed, and guided her daughters. And while she did Spirit instructed, impressed and guided the men. It takes a spiritual as well as physical balance to grasp the whole of it and enter into the Divine Union and partnership.

I don't see women growing weaker, I see them balancing out and raising a new generation of children that are better able to accept and work with this state of balance in themselves and in life without the restraints of our misguided ways of the past. Yes, initially there were matters taken too far, the extreme swing of that pendulum had to take place to set the momentum, it had to make an impact on the patriarchal mindset in order to break through the resistance again and again until it found 'place' within the whole. Of course that wasn't healthy, but it was a learning experience and healthy began to take form as a result of those that could see where there needed to be some damage control. Women copied the male model to find the masculine side of their nature and then learn to function with it. Rather than being passive they had to become assertive and that was a huge challenge with a lot of resistance to give them credit. Most didn't understand what was happening to them unless they were spiritually attuned. And to bring forth that attunement we had the Spiritual Awakening happening at the same time. Religious bodies got involved there. The world was changing like it or not and there were people and organized traditions on both sides of that line.

Spiritually the passive nature of the feminine, when in blended harmony with the assertive nature of the masculine, allows for all of us (male or female) to both receive and act accordingly. We need to be passive to receive, we need to listen to guidance in whatever form we are accustomed to, perhaps even to new forms presenting themselves. We also need to be assertive and act on that guidance to follow it. So there is a bit of both in all of us and the battle of the ages through matriarchal and patriarchal domination is now subsiding to become a joint partnership…a state of balance where we parent ourselves this way and grow to understand the knowledge we hold and wise enough to use it properly. Whoa! Isn't that a novel idea? LOL I think the problem you see, Wolfie, is the struggle to find that balance, not that the struggle itself is the issue, the balance is though.

My generation began setting out to break the chains, the dysfunctions (consciously or not) and in that the family ways were broken down to be restructured and do things differently. That was part of the Change that is more openly discussed today than it was back then. The movements through society in whatever capacity they may present themselves affect the family unity and the individual too. We were to make choices and learn as we went how to do that, there were no rule books or guidelines to follow. The upheaval was thus a very natural part of initiating that Change, like nature bringing a storm through to clear the air. Part of that upheaval was coming to terms with our egos too, bringing them into balance with our higher awareness that we were getting used to. It's so multi-layered, noting could go unchanged if this was to balance out because both the patriarchal and matriarchal extremes needed to settle down and yield control over to tolerance and respect for one and other. The feminine assertion needed to be understood as did the masculine passivity. Role reversals were part of that process, women went to work and some men started to stay home, roles in the household were shared, people began to experiment with new ways of doing things and yes, mistakes were made along the way, it was all trial-and-error stuff in spite of the organization of these movements. Life was teaching us our lessons, Spirit, Mother Earth, Grandmother Moon, Grandfather Sun…they were teaching us to see in both the light of day and by night in our blindness and we had to find our way groping or running into what we felt driving us to do what was right…to right the imbalances, to restore the harmony, to respect, honor, and show compassion for each other. It wasn't easy then and it's still not easy now…unless you hold the Knowledge and the Understanding and can walk in that balance. There you find the tolerance that has so long been sought, not tolerance in the sense of putting up with things, but in Understanding that we each have to come to this in our own way, force is not the answer, timing is individual (be that an individual, society, culture what-have-you), and thus accepting that it will happen when it's meant to happen and our contribution is to walk in balance and lead by that example. Our contribution is to help those who ask for our help in gaining their Understanding and Knowledge so that they too can find their way to balance and walking in it according to their nature. The diversity of a world in harmony and balance is going to be beautiful and I hope I live long enough to see it fully emerged but I wonder if that's to be granted to me too. *Soft smile* We'll see. In the meantime I am focused on what an honor it is to be a part of that being initiated, to watch an era change, and to correct myself with all the kicking and screaming and complaining I've done, to stop that and get to work. So that's what I'm doing and I rather enjoy this state of balance I have found for myself today, but it sure didn't come easy. I turned myself inside out and upside down to get here.

In all this what I've come to see is that we need to learn to flow with the natural order…it takes the masculine and feminine forces to bring forth creation…be that within ourselves or as individuals procreating. I think the Knowledge that you seek is found in the root of the word Know…you feel the truth as a feminine principle and you act on it as the masculine principle…both reside within each of us. Our roles, or the way we walk our talk have to change to allow that to function properly and that's what we're witnessing as we watch societies and nations battle through this. We can only be responsible for ourselves and we always start there to begin with so once we learn to do this within us we can shine our light brightly by example, share with those seeking to do the same, and one by one contribute to the greater whole wherever we're at. On a global scale that's a massive evolutionary moment. Individually it means assuming personal responsibility for finding that balance within ourselves though, we can't look to others to do it for us, only to teach us how to get there. We have to exercise our free will and make those changes ourselves. It's a matter of choice…do we choose to walk with our egos or do we choose to walk with Spirit and Mother Earth to make the world a better place? Rhetorical question. *Soft smile*

(((Cinn))) I don't think we are actually that far adrift in perspectives. I am not questioning the Women's suffrage movement: yes, it was absolutely necessary, there is no way either sex school should somehow be considered less worthy. Trying to bring 101 to my thoughts, I see the problem as two-fold: firstly that masculine orientated religion did take us away from a healthy spiritual balance, but that, in more recent times, and I still believe that this was as a result of the effects of the suffrage movement, we have now lost all sense of balance.

Perhaps this Chaos was necessary: as Chaos seems to me the first phase of any change. And perhaps living in Britain, not the US, I see/feel that Chaos more acutely: Britain is a small, almost monolithic (in terms of its opinions) island where, in comparison to the more diverse US, change seems to happen much quicker. For the same reasons the effects of change seem to be much more profound. I see the changes in civil rights arenas that have come about under our current government, and whilst some are for the better, I feel that many actually have damaged the very people that they are meant to protect: It's not just women rights organizations which have gone too far: gay rights laws. racial equality laws. poverty laws, the British Welfare State and a whole manner of other such laws and new ideas that perhaps had "right intention" have actually worked against society as a whole and particularly those whose lives they were meant to improve. The Welfare State has created generations for whom the idea of work is anathema to the point that the system cannot now function for those who are genuinely in need. Racial equality laws have not really helped create racial equality, but they have been used by minorities to batter those who are not racial minorities and have, in effect, created bigger divisions than were there before the laws were introduced. To be gay in Britain is now "trendy" and that causes a whole heap of problems. EU Human Rights laws have created a situation where criminal's rights are perceived as more important than the rights of their victims or society as a whole.

It strikes me that what often starts out as a group taking responsibility for itself, and asserting its rights, often ends with that group taking things too far. This topic is about the different between masculine and feminine, and therefore I chose the Women's Suffrage movement as such an example I don't disagree for one moment that the patriarchal society is responsible for that movement. But the perspective I was looking at this from was the perspective of masculine and feminine. Unless we wish to change the whole notion of those forces, then we are still left with the feminine being a receptive force and the masculine being an active force. One needs the other, and neither can create without the other. A child is not produced without a seed or a vessel to carry that seed. In many respects they represent nature and nurture too; and both are required to sustain life. What I see is that the nurture part is missing in our society: the nuture element is no longer seen as a valid occupation. This is very evident in households where both parents work and in single parent households. I felt it, but at that time I was in a minority (in that divorce and single parents were not the norm 35 years ago in Britain). But I was lucky, I lived in a middle class area where that was very much still the norm, and we still lived in a time when communities took the strain in such a situation: I had lots of friends in my community and when my mother was working, any day to day needs that were not provided were taken care of by my friend's mothers, who were all at home. I also got to see regular family life through those situations.

But today things are very different. Life in Britain today is all about buy to let mortgages, flat screen TVs, I-pods, mobile phones, SUV's and PS2's: and for the majority of UK households that aspirational lifestyle (that first surfaced in the 50's in the States!) requires both parents to work. Even in two parent households (which are far from the norm here today) children are missing out on the kind of upbringing I had where that combination of nature and nurture works together, even if in unorthodox ways. Now, I can see the value of such a situation: in that children are not being shown stereotypical models of masculine and feminine. But the immediate effect of that is that children are rejecting adults and any form of authority. It's as if, having been left to their own devices, they are rejecting any kind of societal values, and, in particular, respect, both for themselves and consequently for others. We have had, on average, a teenager killing another teenager every other week so far this year in London. An 11 year old was shot in Liverpool as a gang initiation. Anyone who queries these gangs of what the press have described as "ferule" youths risks their own mortality, and a number of adults; fathers, husbands etc. have been murdered by these gangs in the last year. We have had a spate of teenager/young adult suicides in south Wales. One of the things young people have rejected entirely is any form of spirituality. Now, in time, they will realize that there is something missing in their lives, and may seek a spiritual path: but we have seen how this could play out with Britain's Muslim community: by the failure of Muslim parents to integrate into British society, their children, who went to school here etc. and are far more aware of British society, were effectively no different than the ferial children we are seeing today in British society as a whole: having to make their own way in life as their parents were unable to nurture them (in their case in the ways of a society they were not a part of), and the children, having seen a more liberal way outside the home, rejecting the religious culture of their parents, only to find that the materialistic society their parents aspired to (or they would not have come to Britain) was not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. In this situation, they were wide open to negative masculine extremist views that seemed to offer a way out of their problems.

I'm not saying that all this is a direct result of Women's Suffrage, I think that other forces, such as politics, play a bigger part in our current woes than Suffrage in and of itself. But what I am saying is that that movement paved the way for a thinning of the boundaries between the roles of male and female in our society that has been used by unscrupulous patriarchs for their own ends. Politicians particularly have used that thinning to mobilize women to increase the British Gross Domestic Product (the total income of our country) by creating an aspiration for consumer goods particularly. Our current government has used women MP's as a role model: the talk is of equality, but the underlying reasoning for this is purely the increase in GDP, which increases the standing of those politicians on the world political stage by increasing tax revenue, and allowing our government to make grand gestures like giving away our EU rebate which makes other countries richer thus creating new export markets to further increase Britain' GDP. That many of these women politicians, such as Harriet Harmon, the deputy Prime Minister, exhibit very pronounced negative masculine qualities (such as greed for power) reinforces a mindset that actually belittles the very feminine qualities the government says it is trying to promote in its reasoning for the need for more women MP's. The scene was set in the previous government, where we were presented with a woman, Margaret Thatcher, who exhibited virtually no feminine qualities.

But regardless of who captained the ship, there was a need for such a harsh regime at that time: Britain was economically defunct and dubbed "the sick man of Europe". The problem was that by the time that government left power, the hard work and harsh lessons necessary to turn that situation around had been done: and Britain was one of, if not the, leading economy in Europe, if not the World: there was a need then for a more nurturing government: but much to everyone's amazement from a socialist government the current government picked up the pace of the reforms that had turned things around to the point where all sight of the necessity of the original harsh lessons (to eventually bring prosperity to the people) was lost. The next generation, those least able to have their voice heard politically, have become totally forgotten in the malaise. Nothing: binge-drinking, drug abuse, murder, suicide sexual deviancy will make anyone in our society stand up and say that the policies that created the "me, me, me" mindset that has led to this are wrong. We simply create more laws to criminalize the next generation. I believe that the lack of emphasis on the feminine virtues of Understanding has led to this situation: exemplified by female politicians who lack those virtues being role models for women generally. In many respects Margaret Thatcher did Understand what was needed, and she did turn the situation that were leading to poverty around, but she seemed to spurn a whole generation of women who misunderstood that medicine.

It is for this reason that I believe that my grand-mother's generation were much stronger women than those of my own. They stood by their Knowing: they Understood that the next generation is more important than anyone's need for self-assertion. Yes, there was, and still is a need (perhaps even more so today) for women to stand up for their rights, but unfortunately they have done so in such a way that I believe has actually degraded the feminine. In their struggle they bought into the negative masculine tendency of knowledge as means to fulfill a greed for power, rather than Knowing as means to fulfill the self.

Both my grandmother's had to work: my paternal grandmother worked in a mill, took in washing and was also a cleaner: my maternal grandmother ran a shop selling the produce of their small-holding as well as running that small-holding. But in both cases that work was of necessity; to put food on the table: it wasn't for consumer goods, which is why most women work in Britain today. I am not going to name the family, in case they ever come here, but I am very closely associated with one family where the mother worked purely for those luxuries I have seen her tear herself apart in that process. She firmly believed that being able to give her children a PS2 was more important than being there for her children. In the end that aspiration led the family to financial ruin. From other events I believe that what she was seeking was recognition, and, to me, it is a sad reflection on our patriarchal society that bringing up the next generation is no longer perceived as occupation worthy of recognition.

Men, and Western patriarchal society as a whole, lost that Knowing a long, long, time ago, but women were still the keepers of that innate Understanding of how life is created and nurtured: and what the purpose of Life is: to re-create. One of the starkest pointers to the loss of women's Understanding is the number of women I know who have bought into being a career woman, believing that they could leave child-rearing till a later age, only to find that they got caught up in the hum-drum and chaos of that career: and by the time they realized that it was time to get off that train, it was too late: they were rapidly approaching the age when child-rearing was not an option for them: and by the time they fully realized what they really wanted, the train had left the station and they had missed that opportunity. As a result, the birthrate of Celtic/Anglo-Saxon Brits and immigrants who understand the Old Ways is declining rapidly. Instead, the British population is being replaced by dogmatic immigrant populations whose understanding of these ways is long lost.

The initial fault was definitely in negative Masculine medicine, but in a very marked way in the last couple of generations, that fault has been compounded by women losing their own medicine IMHO. Whilst I said at the start of this post that Britain is likely more prone to change, it cannot be ignored that the model of increasing GDP by creating demand for luxury consumer goods came from the States in the post-war period. This brings me to the Sacred Feminine. Modern American society was based on Masonic principles, which was, in turn, loosely based on Kabbalistic Knowledge based on a notion of balance between the masculine and feminine. Of late, I have often wondered whether this is the cause of our problems: in that that patriarchal institution, which I have found pervades society at levels many would find disturbing, claims to be the holder of the knowledge of balance? Perhaps this is why we have lost that balance: because whilst that institution may inform society at a very basic level as to modes of living based around self-improvement and charity, at a much higher level it is based on experiences of Knowledge that are entirely negative: not based on the experience of Knowledge as an internal thing, but on a means to direct society covertly. I have seen this organization at work in my local council and the many offshoot so-called voluntary organizations associations partnering the council and had firsthand experience of how the system works to bring about its own ends in the community organization I am involved with.

There can be no doubt that Masonry still informs politics in this country, and in the US, at a very basic level, and that anyone who does not play by its rules will find it very difficult to succeed in any community venture in our societies. I believe that it is this organization that has thwarted women's medicine and brought about the state of affairs we now find ourselves in, but that women's agreement to play by their rules has allowed this situation to occur: and that agreement came about as result of the women's suffrage movement changing the role of women. I can't help feel that a blurring of the lines occurred at that time that led to where we are today, and that in that blurring, women agreed to disregard their own medicine in favor of the negative masculine need for external power. In one respect, we could see the likes of Jamie Sam's work in bringing Women's medicine forward as a necessity to wake society up from its slumber, because it is society as a whole which must take some responsibility for this series of events. But at the same time, I wonder if publishing the medicine in itself decries from it, in that this is a medicine of oral tradition: passed on personally so that the person receiving it can be observed to ensure understanding: the various paths being opened only when understanding of a previous path is observed. Reading appears to me to be a more negative masculine occupation: it is consumption of knowledge rather than experiencing Knowledge. But I do accept, and have witnessed, reading something and it not making a blind bit of sense, only to read it later, after having had new experiences, and finding that what is written makes perfect sense and I can then own it. So I can the argument both ways on that one.

I can see that in the longer-term grand scale of things, this may be all in Creator's plan, if only to show how things should not be done. But I cannot help feel that Creator would not deliberately leave a whole generation, or series of generations, without the necessary nurturing and the experience of Understanding, just to prove a point, unless the failure of those societies was part of the plan. But that then leaves me with a feeling that Darwin was right and there is no causal nature to our Universe, and somehow I can't accept that!

Hey there Wolfie! *Smiles* It seems you're right, our way of expressing is different but we're definitely running some parallels here. I do agree that the patriarchal aspect of religion and the matriarchal aspect of spirituality divided to create the challenges before us today as they try to come back into union. It was necessary to see the need for balanced respect and partnership that were called for. It's happening in a chaotic way, yes, you're right, it is the precursor for all change. The old uproots and the new sinks roots vying for the same ground. We were out of balance with a matriarchal society and later with the patriarchal ways…both extremes that had to come together to find the balance. It is out of balance now but striving in its current adolescence to learn to restore that harmony together. The pendulum will eventually center itself and stop swinging so wildly. Watch it happen and contribute where you can, that's all any of us can do.

I can't address living in Britain as I've never been there (at least in this lifetime), but here in the US there is a lot of diversity and a wide range of perspectives depending on what part of the country you live in. The South for instance still clings to the old prejudices where the North is more embracing. We have our own challenges for that very reason. The East is set in old traditions and the West is creating new ones so there's conflict there too. In the heartland (the mid-section of the country) you have a mix of it all. Interesting, eh? I agree, the changes in civil rights et al were initiated with good intention but extremes came into play and things got out of control there to the detriment of society in many ways. That's seeking balance too and change will continue until that balance is found…too slowly for some of us. Being politically correct has created its own complications now and with that a loss of humor and respect for the variances in cultural diversity was lost. It's almost as bad as what existed before with the prejudices…one extreme to another striving to find that center ground. Both Britain and the US seem to be running into that and it's happening globally too. The challenge before us now is finding and contributing to the harmony and taming the extremes.

Yes the feminine is a receptive force and the masculine is an assertive one…but…we all (male or female) have both within us and we need to learn to balance that. Once we do we can bring it out into the world and act in union with the two thus in union with all. Therein lies the trinity we strive for but forget to see as the goal. The struggle between the two blinds us. It does take both to create the central whole. The nurture portion you see missing will return when the balance is found. Nurturing is a need too and that need will demand satisfaction. It's chaotic now but it will return to being a need when the time is right. Society is still adjusting and disrespect underlies the courtesy it's expected to demonstrate. Laws/rules are to be followed but there is nothing that says one has to agree with them deep inside. That agreement can only come when the chaos involved outshines itself with primal reactions and the need is seen to bring them under control…within each of us first and according to our own rate of learning. The same materialistic wants and feeding frenzy you're experiencing is present here too. And now the economy is suffering for the over extensions of that. A small yet intrusive example is the housing industry here, construction has come to a major halt as people are over-extended and reverse mortgages offering fast money or equity loans doing the same have people over extended and in foreclosures. The economy can't sustain the debt people are encouraged to put themselves in by capitalistic advertising showing the indulgences as the norm. Practicality went out the window. For the past 8 years my husband and I have been living cash only and it's great. We're not incurring more debt that way, paying as we go or going without is the norm for us but it was a choice we had to make. More and more people are coming to see that's necessary and making that choice but not until they've come to some very hard lessons. The homeless rate is growing because of this. Demand for instant gratification is polluting minds. That too has to balance out with the reality of things and the shattering of the illusions of 'must have' as opposed to 'need'. There has been confusion between the two for a long time.

Technology itself is exploding and because life depends on it we're forced to keep up-or try to. The latest and greatest has the preference with this generation and in that the nurturing is in the getting of 'things' rather than the intangibles that are vitally important. Attention is drawn away from family structure. Children's rights outweigh the rights of the parents to parent. It's a mess, but that's coming to the attention of society too in the explosive corruption of values that resulted and the blatant disrespect not only for people's property but life itself. Gangs are an outcropping of that (always have been here) and the problem is growing to a point where it's demanding that nurturing come back into play so the years can unfold in a healthier way as the 'new authority' comes into play in a more balanced way. Children need to respect adults and adults need to respect children. That was lost and will be found again. Random killing of youth vs youth isn't a weekly thing here, it's hourly if not more. The death toll in this country is over the top and home invasions are the norm on a daily basis. It's way over the top. When I was young I lived in the heart of the city, a good middle class neighborhood, life was simple and clean. Today you won't catch me even driving through that part of town, I avoid it at all costs as it's a war zone as my daughter calls it. Too dangerous. They shoot for no reason other than enjoyment and killing someone is like tossing a rock into a pond the reason is to initiate into gangs and they'll take down a toddler or an adult it doesn't matter, just take a life, feel the power of that and warp your mind some more.

However…countering that is the new generation coming into the fold. Parents that have found their way back to spirituality and a good path for themselves are teaching it to their children and there is a counter culture on the rise as a result. Children such as the Indigo or Crystal Child are on the rise and they will counter this revolutionary group that is warring with life. They destroy and the other builds. The balance will come about naturally as a result. Not soon enough for me, but then I'm not in charge, the universe is though and it's not nice to mess with Mother Nature, I'd rather walk on her side. They'll find out. They are not finding satisfaction in what they're doing with all that violence, only a moment's gratification and the consequences hard learned. Live by the gun die by the gun. Not a very nice way to go through life. But the spiritual rebirth is spreading fast too, and with that the reform of the Church (whatever religion you may want to look at but certainly evident in Christianity) is taking place too…religion and spirituality are merging and here we see it in the Unitarian Church where all faiths come together to share and worship. It's happening, a quiet movement in a way because it takes the individual to embrace it for themselves first but in those growing numbers the attention on religious reform is showing a new face.

Religion, politics, family structure…it's all evolving. And we're evolving with it. You're focused here on the extremes and the chaos but if you step outside the chaos and rise above it to get a bigger picture all those issues are the areas where change is taking place and will balance out. Of necessity, of the natural order and need for the social ills to be healed will come forefront. It's being recognize now and the awareness will lead us to that action. The feminine and masculine virtues will come together and they will produce a new child…a sacred child and that sacredness will demand nurturing by all of us. The old inconsistent initiations are dying and the new balance is coming forward this is what the Change is all about. Seeing it from a bigger picture that's what the wars reflect…the taming of the chaos. It isn't done with only aggression or only nurturing either, it's done with a balance of the two. The question isn't what society or government are going to do about this, that's an offshoot of what WE as individuals are going to choose to do about it first. We make the choice and we make the society and the government. So…it comes back to how we balance the masculine and feminine within ourselves and what we will choose to do with that. How are we as individuals going to find that balance? Native teaching helps us see we are indeed responsible for the next Seven Generations…what we leave behind will take 7 generations to show results and be dealt with so we're dealing today with what our forefathers and foremothers left us to handle. What will we leave our offspring? Awareness of ecological dangers is present and this generation is far more focused and intelligent about correcting those conditions than mine ever was. We didn't even think along those lines when I was a child. Today that's far different. Instead of looking at what's wrong and beyond our control to fix, we need to come back to basics and see what's wrong with us individually and fix that. It all starts with us. If we act responsibly and the next person does and so on then the world starts to change naturally and that's the only way this is going to happen. But we need to focus on the positive in us to do that. We attract what we project and if we project fear, worry, anger, resentments, disgust or any other negative focus we're going to make that priority. Why not turn it to more positive outlooks and start to nurture, love, give, and share? Leading by example is a powerful way to empower others and be a positive role model.

As for the negative image of the feminine in the roles of women today, that's due to them learning the hard way how to balance the masculine energy. Males didn't offer any help there, they resisted instead. Women will find their hearts and bring forth the nurturing again, trust in that it's in their nature. They're role playing at the moment, but they'll get the hang of it. They've been without power in an assertive manner for a long time, it's going to take a while and some practice to wield that sword again. It will happen and they'll master their skills, they'll remember the balance and seek it. Women still hold the Understanding, it's their nature to do so. They just need to remember to use it and that is happening. I'm seeing families that teach spirituality, not religion but the inner truths to their children so they are Awake and Aware and utilizing it. Those children are wise beyond their years and they are going to be the difference makers in a few years. I've seen this happening for the past 3 decades or more. It is changing, Wolfie, and if it is changing here it's changing globally too. Progress is slow but it's taking off. Back in the 70's you didn't dare mention a spiritual path without ridicule or disgust being ignited. Today it's a normal course of life and we hear about those principles in all walks of life. Religion fell out of favor socially in our laws and the children of today are trying to reclaim it because they are in touch with their spiritual side and walk with it…they are being raised to walk their talk and that will assist the Change when the time comes too. Everyone talks about 2012…the time when upheaval will hit…but is it bad? Only if we ignore things and most of us are not ignoring, can't ignore what's happened, most of us are wanting to serve the greater good. The balance will be found but only when we choose to find it. Again, it comes down to the individual choosing to walk in a spiritual way or with their greedy egos. This isn't about the differences between the masculine and feminine it's about the union they form and what they produce by choice as a result. It's about parenting in the New World Order and doing that cooperatively rather than defined by a role of gender. Men can be nurturers too, and women can be assertive too. Both have that in them, one more dominantly than the other but both have it and if they find the balance within themselves then they find the healing they seek too.

When we lose something (our Medicine or nature) we have to go looking for it to find it again and that's what is happening even amid the chaos. To quell the primal we must raise our awareness and the old saying: "If you can't find it within yourself you will not find it in the world" is true. Women playing by the masculine rules is a necessity to position themselves but once in position and power brought into balance their Medicine will return and it will nurture and it will heal. Of course there was a blurring of the lines between the two sides, if there wasn't those lines couldn't be crossed. The patriarchal would have gone to war and been skilled in conquering invaders, women being the invaders and unprepared for that type of battle had to infiltrate to make this happen…quietly and with distraction. Their voices will rise and when they do they will speak with authority born of the Understanding and held in conviction of what is right, not the ego but the spiritual leading the way. Mother Earth called her daughters home in great numbers, still is, and those daughters have been made ready to serve the Change. Watch as the years unfold, you'll see it if you know to look for it.

Publishing works on Women's Medicine was called for, it was part of the calling of the daughters, it got attention. It made the women stir and seek and trust me they are seeking the oral tradition again too. Books open doors, people bring us to experiences and help us sort our way through them. The old ways have not been forgotten, the oral tradition still exists just differently from the smaller tribal setting it is evolving too. Seminars, retreats, workshops, countless ways to serve the greater masses are common today. Back when I was young you got those books in plain brown paper wrappers so no one would know. There were a very limited few back then. Today they fill rows in the bookstores. They open doors, hand out keys and start the seeking. But that seeking eventually leads one to the teachers they're to walk with and right back to the oral tradition. Books are appetizers, the meal resides with the Elders who know how to prepare it and put on a feast of nurturing food. That part has not changed. It will right itself.

"I can see that in the longer-term grand scale of things, this may be all in Creator's plan, if only to show how things should not be done. But I cannot help feel that Creator would not deliberately leave a whole generation, or series of generations, without the necessary nurturing and the experience of Understanding, just to prove a point, unless the failure of those societies was part of the plan. But that then leaves me with a feeling that Darwin was right and there is no causal nature to our Universe, and somehow I can't accept that!"

*Soft Smile* It is indeed part of Spirit 'and' Mother's plan, they work together in union. Contrary Medicine is part of life too. You can't have positive without negative, but when in balance they create harmony. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way and what not to do becomes evident so that we do what is right. That's what's happening here. The healing will come, it's in process now, but total healing comes from mind, body and spirit and we're simply just now starting to understand that in society. Alternative medicine and cross-cultural techniques are merging to create a new Medicine that does indeed combine all three. It's taking time but it is happening. In fact, a few years ago I was asked to address a graduating medical school class on just that subject. I was honored and thrilled to see it being embraced. I highly doubt that invitation has only been extended to me, and would venture to say it was a feather only, with many feathers making up that wing so that others can fly a little higher to raise their awareness. Coyote is active in the world, Wolfie, we have a whole host of different Medicines at play here and each with a united purpose. The Change is happening whether we like it or not, whether we join in support or not, the Wheel is in motion.

Wynsong, Please do not see the discourse between Wolfie and I here as a hijacking or sidetracking of your thread and the intent you are bringing forward. It is merely a reflection of the sorting issues that living a healed and healthy masculine entail. You sharing your journey to that from a woman's perspective is of great value in demonstrating how that Change can be achieved and I really hope you will continue to carry on with the topic as I am enjoying walking with you through it as others are too. It's something we're all going through and a gift to this community contributing to our understanding of the process. It will vary for each of us according to our needs but you are certainly presenting us with the pattern it follows and I am personally grateful to you for that gift.

As I said at the outset of my posting...I journey in my journal...this isn't about me, even though I am writing my own stories...so you can't hijack this by adding to it...it will just journey in the direction it needs to go in.

I've been away this weekend, basketball with my youngest, and now Mom is here with me as I get ready to do the chemo journey...so I'll be on a bit less...but will come to this as I can... I haven't had a chance to read and digest what you two have been discussing...so my silence, is a function of my life, not a function of my attachment to what is going on here.... I did notice the word BALANCE several times... And that is my personal goal...to find balance...between the masculine and feminine energy within me... (and there is a hope that the stories I've been taught are truth, that as within, so without...so that if I can find my balance between the masculine and feminine energy within me and live it...that, that balance will become visible in the world around me...and be lived...) I do love the representation of the Yin Yang symbol as it depicts the beauty of the balance...and for those unfamiliar with it, it isn't a disc, it is a sphere...so that as you reach maximum Yin, then Yang appears (and vice versa)...not just in 2 dimensions, but also as you travel the energy horizontally. Within that symbol there is always a balancing...like Tai Chi, which done properly always has the practitioner fully centered and thus fully able to move in any direction. I'll come back and read the longer posts fully as I have time. Please carry on...the point of the thread from my stand point, is to explore the maps we are living of what it is to live masculine energy....what it is to live feminine energy...and how we can create a map for living them in harmony within and without... Munay ki

Cinn,I still don't think we are that far apart. I see much of what you discuss as being truth, particularly why the veil had to thin and lines had to blur. But I come back to my basic point, and where I see we are storing up problems for the future and why I believe that what is happening today, far from creating a better future, is actually making things worse:

“Native teaching helps us see we are indeed responsible for the next Seven Generations…what we leave behind will take 7 generations to show results and be dealt with.”

If, as societies, we are so busy "changing the world" we are leaving the next generation to their own devices, whatever we achieve in our generation will be undone in future generations. There will always be exceptions to the rule: not all of Britain's youth are feral, but if I look in my own area, an affluent, church-going conservative area, I see that feral element even here. My generation, 60's children, were supposed to be the start of the change you speak of, but as I said, things are actually getting worse, not better, in my generation. The Mother will always find her own balance regardless of what we human's may perceive: she was here long before us, continuing her processes, and will be here long after we are gone. Indeed from what I have been shown, that is how balance will be restored, not by human effort. What has happened in China in the last week, will, by necessity, make China more inward looking. China's economy was teetering on the brink of collapse before this quake: all the economic indicators are showing that China is heading for recession borne of inflation (which is higher in China than any western state's) as a result of its own internal markets, and something like this quake could well be the straw that breaks that camel's back; it will certainly damage it.

Five million homeless cannot be ignored by the regime. China and India have been keeping world stock markets buoyant in recent years: if they start to fail, that will put a whole new perspective on things. Perhaps then the Indigo children will have opportunity, but unless we do have that kinda change, I can't see things really changing. Yes, I can see that attitudes towards the Spiritual path have changed: they have changed remarkably in my lifetime, and in recent years in particular. But by the same token by far the biggest growth in spiritual/religious circles in Britain today is that in fundamentalist Christianity: it's growth is far outstripping the growth of spiritual paths and that, allied with Muslim fundamentalism, is a path towards even greater negative masculine.

I firmly believe in notions of the macrocosm and the microcosm. In this respect, if it is Coyote who is leading this dance of extremes in the wider world, then it would also be Coyote who is leading that dance within. Personally, I don't see Coyote, I see Lion, and many of my lessons in recent years have been about Leadership, whether that be political, spiritual or in my everyday mundane life: whether they have played out within, in my community or in the wider world. I can't remember now whether our community group started whilst I was last here or after. As chairman of that group, one thing I learnt from that situation is that such well-meaning endeavors can have a very negative outcome, and I began to realize that what we were creating was beginning to take on a life of its own: a life that was susceptible to the negative imprints of others in the group whose motives were not as pure as my own. I saw that my vision for the group was the cause of that, precisely because it was an internal vision I was trying to create externally out-with myself: a healing I needed to undergo that I was projecting out into my community. Rather than heal that wound, I was projecting it. I see the exact same thing happening with our government. Perhaps because it is a lesson I am learning, I see it being mirrored back to me in many situations out in the world of form.

In many respects this whole topic is about Lion Medicine, because it strikes me that to heal the masculine requires that we accept that Leadership is not an external thing to be undertaken, but an internal thing to be resolved. Righting and Mastery of Lion Medicine seems to require that we accept that we cannot change things outside ourself: and I feel that this is where, as societies, and as individuals, we have gone wrong: we have come to believe that we can. History is littered with figures who held such beliefs, as is our current era, and many of the extremes, such as the Masons and organized religions, do so, as they always have, on the basis of spiritual beliefs. Perhaps this is where Coyote comes in. Masculine medicine is described as an active force, and it is often said that the masculine needs a medium outside itself to experience and learn compared with feminine notions of going within to find that experience. One of the things I have become very aware of late, is a notion of "holding back". I think the reasons we have, as societies, lost our sense of balance is that the masculine has, once it experienced, gone further and has tried to influence spheres outside itself and change those spheres instead of taking that information back in to change itself.

In many respects I see the British Queen as a fantastic role model of positive masculine energy. She goes out into the world and experiences it, but never offers an opinion: she never tries to persuade, change or lead opinion. She Knows what her purpose is and how to play that role, even if, in increasing numbers, those who look upon her do not. Few of us could say that about ourselves. Much criticism has been levelled at her, particularly with respect to her ability to nurture her own children, but I think that she Understood what would be required of them, particularly with respect to standing in balance and remaining aloof from the trickeries of personal emotions and the mass consciousness of the same that seems to grow ever more hungry for instant external gratification and a world changed to enable the same. By our standards they may have received a strict, even severe, upbringing, in comparison to the times, but it strikes me that part of their role is to stick to the truth, and not be swayed by the popular opinion that seeks to change the world to one they feel more comfortable in, rather than chase the demons that create that need for change.

But for the masculine to have gone so far out of balance, requires the same to be true of the feminine, because the feminine brings the Understanding. So perhaps my initial theory that the masculine lack of balance informed the feminine was wrong: at least initially and that it was a lack of Understanding that has created the tendencies towards masculine imbalances in our modern era.

Hi Wolfie, I guess it's all in how you look at it. We tend to see the worst in the negative impact of the immediate present but destructive forces frequently precede the positive changes. It just all has to run its course. Society can't change until 'we' change as people and that begins with each of us individually. We can observe what's happening and feel disheartened or vent about it all we want but that doesn't change things, people do and that's one person at a time so it will take time to unfold. Society is changing the world and group after group is focused on that, as are the governments, they are going to function as they will and there's little we can do about it unless we're in a position to be involved with a group ourselves. So our responsibility, IMHO, is to change ourselves for the better, contribute wherever we can, and gradually that becomes a movement in itself-which is happening at the same time as everything else. Change is chaotic and the global changes we're seeing, the disruptive and constructive forces at play, have been changing for decades already, amid that there's some assimilation going on and there's improvement taking place too. When the spirit is active and the heart is open we can bring miracles forward. I prefer to work in that direction and hold to that perspective. I can't stop the negative on my own, but I can make a positive difference if I stay focused on doing so. Choices there that we all need to make, again, IMHO. If we're walking with Spirit and Mother Earth we're walking a good path and the more traveled that becomes the closer to center we get…closer to harmony and balance being restored.

"If, as societies, we are so busy "changing the world" we are leaving the next generation to their own devices, whatever we achieve in our generation will be undone in future generations."

What if it becomes a model for future generations to follow instead?

"There will always be exceptions to the rule: not all of Britain's youth are feral, but if I look in my own area, an affluent, church-going conservative area, I see that feral element even here. My generation, 60's children, were supposed to be the start of the change you speak of, but as I said, things are actually getting worse, not better, in my generation."

One could take that perspective here too, however I see it as the chaos at play to usher in the changes. People don't change until they see the need to and that need is becoming very prevalent if you ask me. The universe itself can be seen as a beautiful thing or a violent place…how you move through it or what perspective you hold makes all the difference. Again IMHO. We won't see change happening if we're not looking for it or focused in that direction, all we'll see is what's wrong. I'm of a firm belief that if I can't do something directly I can pray on it and place the matter in Spirit and Mother's hands to move someone to tend it (or masses to tend it). All I'm capable of is what is in my own environment to do and focusing on that is my contribution. Globally if each of us does that things do change contributing to the greater whole. So I leave the politics to the politicians, contribute with my vote, and move on. I do the same with other social issues. I can't fix the world, I can fix myself, and I can touch a life here and there and if I do that each day of my life then I see that as a good thing. I can set an example for others to follow but that's up to them to decide if they want to (my Cougar Medicine is strong on that issue). If they don't want to then they have every right to walk the path they're taking and I can't stop them nor do I have the right to try. I might warn if I know it holds dangers for them but that's all I can do. Some might call that passive, I call it realistic and it allows me to be more functional. I can bat social ills or social benefits around all day and accomplish nothing. My words won't change the world like that. My actions will though and large or small I see that as my responsibility…how we respond, how we perceive does make a difference.

Asking ourselves how we balance our feminine and masculine natures, as individuals, is what starts this state of balance flowing. In the rise in spirituality, not religion, in this country there has been a massive movement spanning decades to serve in a positive capacity by countless individuals. From what you describe that's just really getting started in Britain where it's been established here for some time. Oh we have the fundamentalists too, but the government here has silenced them to an extreme where the word God is not to be mentioned in schools where prayer once was the start of the day. That has spilled into other places too now and religion is a topic that has gone more private than public in many ways. It may not happen that way in Britain, some parts of the world are going to serve differently than others. The Middle East is a prime example of that and the upheaval locations all indicate where change is trying to break through. War torn areas of the globe, catastrophic elements of nature hitting different countries…change is happening, it's just not all pretty at first. And in all that, it still comes down to what an individual is moved to do about it. How far will they go? How deeply involved will they get? What action will they take? If we consider the next 7 generations and what we are leaving behind to them, well I think we start to think differently, act differently, and hold that in our hearts.

Again…each individual has to make those choices for themselves and choosing to turn their back or do nothing is a choice too. The larger picture changes with each stitch in the tapestry taken, and each stitch is taken by us. I don't know that Coyote is leading this dance, but certainly it's clear that there is Coyote Medicine at play. The creature-teachers are all involved, they always have been, it's up to us to see who is dancing around us and work with that perspective. If Lion speaks to you about conditions then that's the Medicine you need to be working with. I think if you step back you'll see many of the creature-teachers partaking in this dance. Each doing their part as we're to do for good or bad. Both the positive and negative have to be involved to bring the changes through. If not everything stays the same. Leadership comes in many guises, Wolfie, some strong, some gentle, some contrary too. I believe that a good leader is one that empowers others, who helps them find their strengths and courage to grow and act in ways where they too can lead. I do not believe that we can change others or that we're supposed to carry their load for them if they can do so themselves. If someone can't then it's another story and we're to assist them as we're moved to do. Perhaps in the things I'm sharing about my personal perspectives you can see where the feminine nurturing comes into play. I hope so. There are other ways other than being aggressive, assertive is different, to demonstrate the masculine side of my nature too and I strive to do both as I stumble at times and take great strides at others. I've fallen into the mud before and I will again but I clean up pretty decently. LOL You're chairman of your community group and you're trying to make a difference in that position. To lead means you're going to have to adjust when the well-meaning attempts fail and changes will be called for to fix that. You're trying and that's what matters. You'll touch others in your role and you'll make a difference, perhaps not all involved but some and they'll touch others too. Setting good intent into motion is going to insure that. Yes, groups do take on a life of their own. In a group the group mind starts to think for itself and the individual agenda doesn't always fit that perception. If it's leaning toward negative creations then one can strive to bring that to the group's attention and if that's not possible perhaps join a different group more in line with the perceptions. Again, choices. These things happen on large and small scales. It always begins with us though…always. And it goes out from there.

"Perhaps because it is a lesson I am learning, I see it being mirrored back to me in many situations out in the world of form. In many respects this whole topic is about Lion Medicine, because it strikes me that to heal the masculine requires that we accept that Leadership is not an external thing to be undertaken, but an internal thing to be resolved. Righting and Mastery of Lion Medicine seems to require that we accept that we cannot change things outside ourself: and I feel that this is where, as societies, and as individuals, we have gone wrong: we have come to believe that we can. History is littered with figures who held such beliefs, as is our current era, and many of the extremes, such as the Masons and organised religions, do so, as they always have, on the basis of spiritual beliefs. Perhaps this is where Coyote comes in."

Possibly for you it is. Your perceptions are there for you to journey with, Wolfie, as are the perceptions of each of us. What stands out to one person as 'the way' may not be the same for another and thus we are back to Canku Ota/Many Paths that are walked. Upon those paths, depending on the environments one journeys through, we will find our influencing factors, teachers, enlightenments and challenges. The creature-teachers roam them all with us. *S* "Masculine medicine is described as an active force, and it is often said that the masculine needs a medium outside itself to experience and learn compared with feminine notions of going within to find that experience."


"One of the things I have become very aware of late, is a notion of "holding back". I think the reasons we have, as societies, lost our sense of balance is that the masculine has, once it experienced, gone further and has tried to influence spheres outside itself and change those spheres instead of taking that information back in to change itself."

To a large extent yes. The patriarchal society we live in promotes a lot of that. Just as a matriarchal society would promote the feminine ways. I think what you'll find if you focus on the union of the two (which is a huge part of the Change/evolution of live) that you will see that these have been experienced this way to see that the best of both is called for in union, from the heart with love, and from the head with intent, to bring the Changes for the better through to serve the greater whole. I believe that's what we're witnessing but we're not seeing the union fulfilled yet, it's in process though and I believe we need to trust that process and support it with our convictions born of our spiritual understandings. It takes the spiritual and physical to come together to do that.

"But for the masculine to have gone so far out of balance, requires the same to be true of the feminine, because the feminine brings the Understanding. So perhaps my initial theory that the masculine lack of balance informed the feminine was wrong: at least initially and that it was a lack of Understanding that has created the tendencies towards masculine imbalances in our modern era."

*Soft smile* Perhaps. Perhaps it's a bit of both and more. The question is...how do we, as individuals, change ourselves to be more productive and contributory though? How do we, as you see the Queen doing, bring that balance into play in our own lives and thus make the greater

whole a little better? That's what balancing the two calls for and that's what we're asking here...to share how that's accomplished. In my eyes that comes first with recognizing the need (be that shown to us in a small or grand scale) and then making the choice to change inside and act on that externally...we feel that in our heart and spirit and we move forward.

So I'm almost back...round 1 of chemo is slowly becoming a story...one I'm telling this time on the physical, as I live all of its interesting paths at that level, this time. 8 rounds...infinity....8 chakras (in my tradition), so possibly 8 experiences (one at each level)...I'll let that unfold as it may. BUT... the stories that are being created by me, for me are interesting akin to the Soul Retrieval of several years ago.

And in this direction...I was given a Soul Retrieval…in which the original wound was...a small girl looking shaman like out of the corner of her eyes...to the left...watching a black cloaked Father Christmas type figure moving in and out of the space towards her (surging forward so he could be seen...and then retreating)...The Father Christmas figure would surge forward against a vortex, that was trying to suck him out of the energetic field, and then start to fade as it caught him...., but in the first description of the wound, the vortex wasn't seen...and so... in being told about this wound...I and all the shaman around me...saw the black clad Father Christmas figure as the 'bad' guy...and the girl as the innocent victim....

(when I asked questions of them, from that perspective, I got no answers....little wonder)

Ahh the Victim, Perpetrator, Caregiver/Rescuer triangle....I've lived there so long...

And it wasn't until the end of that week, when we were doing some more work on the journey to rewrite the contracts of that soul Retrieval, that I became sorrowful as I watched the Father Christmas figure being sucked out...and the girl never moving, just watching...and maybe feeling glad to see it happening....

So the surgeries occurred on my right side (all surgeries I've ever had have been on the right of center) ...both of them( the two current ones related directly to the cancer) ...removal of the right breast...then going into the axilla area (armpit) to remove all the lymph glands (which turned out to be unnecessary, because there was no more cancer found, but needed to be done to make sure of that)....AND the highest most common metastatic secondary site for this cancer is the liver (an organ on the right side) .... AND this cancer is also highly likely to mirror to the left breast, but despite the right breast being chock full of cancer....no signs of it on the left at all....(interesting) SO... there is some physical evidence that (and this is an 'as usual') the injuries are being sustained by my right...masculine side...and the left remains mostly un-effected... AND

to do the treatment, I volunteered to have a PICC (Peripheral Catheter) placed into my arm for the chemo treatments (to preserve my veins)....and so I have a tube that runs from my upper left arm to the top of my heart (the right side of my heart)..Interesting. AND when they went to put it in...a relatively common procedure that the nurse was actually doing...no matter how large the vein in my left arm was...and how accessible, the minute she touched it with the needle...it disappeared...After two tries, she called the radiologist ( a lovely man) and he also had some trouble, so he actually had to knock the vein out with anesthetic to make it stay still to be 'invaded' (one could also say 'involved'), so the health of my body can be maintained through my left side. The feminine side, had to be subdued to participate in this particular healing. AND now I'm getting needles for 8 days to keep my immune system at a functioning level...and the nurses would like to alternate arms...BUT I've been told not to ever let anyone use my right arm for anything ever again (masculine being told to take a rest from being the primary doer?), due to the compromised lymph flow.... SO my left arm has taken all but one needle (one I had to self-administer due to a complete SNAFU around orders...which I (interestingly enough) administered to my right abdomen (being right handed and all) - that one stung the longest)....and despite taking 6 of 7 needles in my left shoulder, there have been no problems (well beyond the expected headaches and bone pain)...no problems with my left side helping out this time. I know for many this all may seem random...and that is fine... It isn't your story...but mine... The part (or grace...the piece that went into shadow at the wounding) that was retrieved for me in that Soul Journey was a mitochondria...a two cell walled organelle that is the power house of ever cell in our body.... (a beautyfull example of masculine (outer) and feminine (inner) working harmoniously together to produce all the energy of life within each cell, and therefore within me as a whole)

That grace piece, of what I lost when the original wound happened...is definitely a piece I need to hold on to, as I walk this journey...as the chemo takes all the energy that I use to be me, and it goes I don't know where for 5 days... As I enter this next part of the journey on Friday...I will work with the grace piece consciously and allow it to do the energy parts of the journey...for it is apparent, that I'm not even here to try to do it, for the first 5 days post treatment. It gives a new definition to the term Zombie, for me. And as whatever energy that makes me, uniquely me, is away....I will ask it, to please return to me with stories of where it journeyed, while I felt asleep. This all came back to me, as I spoke to a friend who is negotiating the native land issues in this area...I opened my mesa, and lifted one stone...a marble egg. And as I gazed at the universe within it, the phone rang, and it was her...and our talk went to the wounded masculine, and the wounded feminine as it plays out in the negotiations in which she is trying to create transformation in.... She is working with transforming old stories and wounds into new maps between those who will come to the table...victims, rescuers, perpetrators all... And I am doing the same journey, within myself. It was wonderful for us to weave our stories together... To find that it is just one story, told from many perspectives...some masculine...some feminine...some

victim, some persecutor, some caregiver...all one, in the end. Like the egg...A universe, contained, with the potential for growth, or decay, and/or both in harmony, ....in life. . Munay ki

Wynsong, that's a beautiful journey and filled with challenge for you but what I'm seeing is the co-operation that is emerging within and without. Your sharing is teaching others to see from the perspective of unity within the whole and I think the example of your journey and challenge along with your friend's journey into challenge demonstrates the whole. Thank you.

You are well come Cinnamon. I am glad that the telling of it wasn't so personal, that it had no meaning outside of me.

Oh it holds meaning and relevance for us all. As you learn and share we learn and can share. It's through our experiences we gain our in-sight and wisdom as we work through them so personal stories are our Medicine Stories and in that sharing the Medicine comes forward. You're not only sharing your discoveries but how you work with or weave your Medicine teaching others a method of working with their own. It's multi-faceted that way.

Sage Napala:
I couldn't have said it better Cinnamon Moon, it is in the sharing and caring we move forward.

Then I will say, You're well come to this journey's tale too SageNapala.

“all surgeries I've ever had have been on the right of center”

This is your journey and I do not want to detract or muddle the flow of that, Wynsong. I honor and celebrate this season's peculiar journey for you. I am adding here, as an aside, that with this statement a bell rang loudly through me and my journey has taken its own leap forward. Thank you.

I'm glad to hear that SwanFeather, but I'm pretty sure this is not just my journey, I'm just the only one that is writing a story at the moment, in this thread. As you know..I journey most often in my own journal, so you cannot muddy the waters here, by swimming with me. Two swans swimming in the same pond may muddy the water a bit more, but they are always so lovely to watch as they do it. And who knows what would ripples we would create, which shores they would touch if we swam together. I truly invite anyone to tell their own story here....it was never supposed to be about me...and my journey alone... Munay Ki

Ah, well then. So. We Swans (at least these two) seem to both need some masculine healing. With the exception of my hysterectomy, my surgeries have all been on my right side, (appendectomy, two partial thyroidectomies and a ganglionectomy on my right wrist) as well as my migraines. Oh, wait! I lie. Directly after I left my marital home I fractured my left ankle in two places and had surgery. That was the week I also let go (physically and spiritually) of my ex-husband. Long story there and this isn't the place, but I think this was the exception that kind of proves the rule. Hmmm.

Sage Napala:
I have spent over 90 minutes reading and re reading this long missive. It has moved me and my guide greatly and I have so much to say but no words to express the thoughts now....WynSong....I am so moved to great emotion with your story, tears to smiles...you will be well...you walk a hard road but you know the path and see with such clarity. I will go to the wood and pray for you in the ways I was taught by my great gran and my gran....matriarchal yes....I would wait to respond I think to the feminine/masculine issues....I would send for you a healing energy if you wish it...I am drawn to offer, Sahyeesha nods, and the dark one has her arm....it is what I do, who I am.....if you would wish it....Sage

Sage, I am honored by your offer of healing energy. There is some part of this journey that calls me forward, so I have resisted directly interfering with the path of the actual cancer... on some level, I am called to walk this and so I am... (there is story too, around how it was found...and why it is where it is....and those stories may be very generational....I am driving those who know me well, walk with me often and can move mountains in the area of physical healing quite mad, as I continue to walk the path I'm being called to, rather than the one they wish for me- asking them instead to energize a future time line for me, that has me dancing years from now, in a grey dress on the arms of one I believe to be my grandson, at the wedding of another grandchild. I am healthy, strong, upright and loving life in that vision.....and it came to me with the diagnosis of the cancer) ....healing energy that brings me clarity to see my path would be well come. Healing energy that helps me stay connected to life's source would also be well come. And of course watch me dance at that wedding...for that will energize that time line...and make it more probable. Swansister...I was rereading The Celestine Prophecy this morning...and it spoke of receiving the universal energy....and it came to me, that my belief that my masculine needs healing, may make it harder for me to stay connected fully to that universal energy (which is both masculine and feminine)....I will be out at the cancer center today, with a social worker....and I will examine that old map of wounding as I travel this day, and I will be asking questions to see how all these pieces fit together to move me along my personal path...

A new journey statement is forming for me... One that includes living in harmony within and without fully connected to Life's Source.

Sage Napala:
....healing energy that brings me clarity to see my path would be well come. Healing energy that helps me stay connected to life's source would also be well come. And of course watch me dance at that wedding...for that will energize that time line...and make it more probable. Then this is what I will send for you WynSong...on the breezes from my hollow which holds the vortexes of Mother...this energy I will send to you. Sage

Thank you SageNapala, I am sorry I did not respond sooner...my computer and the internet parted company some 3+ weeks ago, and I have been utterly offline since then...plus within that time frame I spent 2 lovely weeks at the cottage and lake and under the trees of my heart...healing and journeying. It was all good.

Sage Napala:
I keep a candle lit, it sends the good thoughts and the light I said I would send for you. The sharing is appreciated. I cry with you and smile as well. Many of us are going thru many assorted hard journeys...I bid you to fare well on yours with all my heart.

So this journey has not ended, but I've been distracted. Today, as I was exploring so many aspects of what healing means to me, and what living means as well.... I was taken back to old journals, long locked and inaccessible...and old journeys... I was reminded that my eagle showed up on my left, and that that warrior energy is on my feminine side. I was reminded of me She Bear mother energy...of an energetic battle that occurred with a wounded old male Lion energy, because on of my young cubs had behaved inappropriately and this lion's ego had been wounded...his suggestion was a lifetime ban from representing the school in sports (over a picture)... My she bear energy came out immediately, and decisively... All she said, was...you do what you feel you need to do, and then I will do what I need to do in response. Nothing got done, and so the battle never reached the physical, but I remember the energy of this roused she bear...she drove to Toronto that day...and hours trip....I have no memory of the drive. I guess what I'm saying is masculine may be the outward and thus embody the warrior creed...and yet my experience is that some of my most feminine aspects also can be outward...like birthing...and involve a fierce warrior creed... Amazons come to mind immediately...as does any nurturing mother in nature, and what she will do to protect her young. Now the Phoenix energy, is more centered...and it embodies both the masculine and feminine energy in its oneness, for me.

Phoenix came with the soul journey that brought back the mitochondria pieces...a matriarchal piece of cellular organelles that has a two sided cell wall, one facing outward, one inward, and between them they produce all the energy of cellular activity. Again...Oneness of the masculine and feminine. Munay Ki

I love going back over old journal entries. They are such beautiful mirrors for things that need to resurface as we run across them, but also such a bright reflection on how much we have grown, how far we have come, and how we use that knowledge today. I'm happy you found these records to peruse and see yourself in such beautiful balance.

Thanks Cinn. I was reading the Variance article....still not able to read anything that long, but read bits throughout it, as they caught my eye... As I read through yours and Paah's comments, I was surprised by the 50-50 split comments, because finding or having one, was never (in my memory, which is faulty at best) what I was looking for...I'm looking for healthy, healed and balance...but 50/50 isn't a definition of that for me (I don't think).

That may be my Taoist training showing up, because the yin and yang principle (it still surprises me that when I write yin and yang, I start with the feminine, but when I write masculine and feminine ...I always start with the masculine)...anyway, that oddity aside..

the yin and yang were never expected to be in fixed proportions, but flow...yin to yang ...yang to yin, neither ever existing in exclusivity. The symbol of Taoism, the flow between the 'two fishes' chasing each other, is the best representation I've seen of it...you can follow the lines with your finger and see how the energies flow into new proportions...sometimes so yang as to almost exclude the yin, but as the yang expands, there is the tail of the yin...that sliver (and vice versa) ...and of course in the maximum yin there is a dot, and island of yang, and vice versa, and if you do the martial arts that include the Tao, you get to experience that symbol not as a 2 dimensional disc, but as a 3 dimensional sphere...the key to not being defeated, is to draw your opponent out of their center, and then and only then exert yang or yin appropriately to throw them...if they over extend their yang, you would quickly move into yin with a redirective force (yang) to unseat them...and vice versa... (I wonder if the Chinese have a symbol for vice versa). And despite all that, my masculine had taken a beating that is manifest on the physical, and my feminine, which has acknowledged and honored power of her own, is not harmed at that level. I sit with this and wonder, and so I have no doubt that answers will be given when I need them, or it is appropriate for me to have them.

I am starting to believe...that the answer may be Joy... I'm sitting with that now, with my best teacher who is also my best "in person" friend, an ex-cop, a teacher, and an artist, who I have watched live her Joy for some 25 years now...and she grows in the doing of it daily....I forgot also devout Catholic in that description, as I know for some people being Catholic gets in their way of Living their Joy, but it only enhances it for my friend. She is an angel for me so often...a gift from Spirit...and our way of living our Faith, could not be more at odds.. And an example of the Pagan and the Pope....maybe a new story for me to explore... Anyway, I'm going with Joy...and in this case, I believe my masculine can take the lead...to help my feminine be less afraid of her Joy and begin to live it. I, of course, have no idea if any of this is truth, it is just what flowed in this moment.

Munay Ki

(chemo tomorrow, so I'll likely be away again for a bit…and need to catch up later....I pick up my mom today...on her 60th anniversary...my father is such a giving soul and at the same time stubborn to distraction...he will let my mom come and stay with me for a week, leaving on his 60th anniversary...he will not come and stay at my "messy" house to be with her on that date, nor will they stay near here at a hotel... I love life, it is endlessly entertaining and instructive)

(((Wynsong))), may the chemo be gentle with you. I'll be holding space for you. Yes, some of my articles (okay the majority of them) are long. It's the writer in me and once I start I let it all flow. It's okay that you skimmed it, and take it in bites, what you need will come across. I can appreciate the yin and yang comparison, and in all traditions there is something that addresses the harmony between the two...I think when we speak of balancing them harmony is what we're addressing...yin and yang addresses the fluidity, the motion and there's beauty in that. Thank you for pointing it out. We are so accustomed to perceiving balance as a 50/50, level, equality with the way our social structure is built around it...justice, measurements, proportions, but when we speak of balance in the spiritual sense it's very different. I think if you were to look at a couple, say a husband and wife, you would see that in their interactions the balance is often one holding space for the other, and yes, the feminine can be active too, just ask Solar Crone...or any mother for that matter.

“And despite all that, my masculine had taken a beating that is manifest on the physical, and my feminine, which has acknowledged and honored power of her own, is not harmed at that level. I sit with this and wonder, and so I have no doubt that answers will be given when I need them, or it is appropriate for me to have them. I am starting to believe...that the answer may be Joy...”

What a beautiful way to put it, yes, it is joy...in the heart...the love that is joyful and it needs to be shared with the Self....you can bet the Self is sharing it with the physical side of self. You mention your lovely friend that you are contemplating this with and that she is so different from you in her beliefs. I can't resist sharing that my husband is Roman Catholic and he once thought the differences between our beliefs were so vast but they're not, it's merely the way we perceive things. When I shared with him that he believed in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit he acknowledged that fervently. And I asked him if he believed that the Holy Spirit wasn't present in everything that exists and he agreed it was.

So I then shared that in my beliefs we are taught to SEE the Holy Spirit...to see the breath of Spirit in the Wind, to feel it pass over us, see it move things, watch it carry the moist air to bring the nourishing rains. That when we hear the thunder and see the lightning we see the intimate union of Mother Earth and Spirit and their passions flow from soft and tender to wild and primal. I explained how the elemental forces at play in life are the stuff life is made of and it's not so different from what he believes. My Spirit Keepers of the four elements are depictions of his Archangels and both bear the same attributes. It was enough of an example to open his mind to saying the same things in a different language and he began to explore the language of my path more (I knew his well LOL).

It wasn't long before he was watching the Discovery and National Geographic specials on Native spiritual beliefs with tribal members expressing their views, he took it all in, saw the beauty, and decided that's all it was, a different language, and a more personally intimate relationship with the Living Spirit. You may want to point that out to your friend and see where she takes it. We are not all that different and there are more similarities than one would think. Not in the dogma, I don't go there, but in the foundational structures it's the same. There is a masculine trinity and there is a feminine trinity...two triangles that when brought into union create the diamond...As Above, So Below...the Oneness completes itself. I'm glad you have this friend to physically walk with you at this time. It is such a comfort to be able to share our precious and intimate sacredness with someone. I do not think that the Pagan and the Pope are all that far apart, one could say the Pagan is the feminine and the Pope the masculine, one more internal, the other more external. Both walk well together if we make room for them to figure it out. I'm happy to hear that your mother will be with you and while your father may be stubborn I'm sure that he will be with you in spirit, holding you in his thoughts and cradled in his heart. He's a typical man of his age I think, set in his ways, but ya gotta love 'em just as they are...the same unconditional love they hold for you....and yes, that can be endlessly entertaining! I wish you well, Wynsong, a gentle journey this round. A’ho!

My father has been more able to express his love clearly through this, than at any other time of his life.... My girlfriend has a personal relationship with God that she accesses through Catholicism...and I'd love to be a spider on the wall if any priest or pope told her she wasn't allowed to go direct, but had to go through the middle men....Let's just say, she'd do it with love and humor and maybe art...and the male in question would never be quite the same as he was before the encounter.

"one could say the Pagan is the feminine and the Pope the masculine, one more internal, the other more external." I was blown away by this description of yours to my Pagan and the Pope comment...because it would totally describe our relationship as it has been....but neither of us is truly invested in

keeping it that way...and I'm learning to live my joy more openly, and she is learning to allow others to live theirs with more ease, as we grow older together. She loves my practice...and allows it to be mine, but always when she comes home from her journeys, her gift to me are stones that called to her... The two trinities can also be overlapped to form a star...some call it the Star of David, but before it was called that, it was just called union....and the mathematician in me, will use the set A set B over lapping to form a Set C of union....the paradox of taking polar opposites (in appearance) and blending the apparent boundaries of their differences to create from two separate Mandalas, the Mandorla, or sacred in my mind or at least ancient symbol of two circles coming together, overlapping one another to form an almond shape in the middle. And it is the basis of the wonderful shape they create to put art into many old Christian churches of all denominations. I love to be able to read, and sit and share....and Be .... Now... Awake...Joyfull. Munay Ki and my deepest gratitude.

Sage Napala:
My intent stays steady and strong for you as does the light to illuminate yourself

Thank you Sage... Now off to get my mom... My love to you all, from this human form... And Munay ki

Today's happenings...and as it always seems...I have this kind of insight, and then I'm away from my computer and won't be able to add to it for about 10 days.... As I did my circuit training today, I noticed as I left my townhouse complex that the Moon, which I'd admired last night on my late night walk, was still up...She was beautyfull and almost full last night, and I spoke to her, and thanked her for being...and this morning, she was still beautyfull, if somewhat less brilliant, as the sun was fully up. The sky was completely clear, and as I finished walking west towards the moon, I did a short walk south, and turned East, into the glory of the Sun in all its beauty in a clear sky...as I walked it felt like I was suspended between their two energies...held perfectly in balance...and I remembered a day a year or so ago, when I opened my blinds to the Sun as it rose above the rooftops into my Eastern facing windows, and the Moon in its fullness was setting in my Western windows...and there was a point in my bedroom where I felt held beautyfull between the two. . . I also was experiencing a cleansing as I walked and realized that is was happening as I was suspended between the sun which was still in the East, and the almost full moon which was setting in the West.... (I had been encouraging the energy to move towards the light...in my head, the Sun...when I realized that I was being given light from both the Sun and the Moon, and that the energy could choose which way it wanted to go, as there was only light)

Their message seemed to be NOTICE...We cycle like this often...and it is up to you to notice, when we are both in the sky...Notice when you are equally positioned between the Solar and the Lunar...It matters not which is rising, or which is setting, but it matters that you are held by us both...and often equally. As I walked my first circuit today, I consciously opened to the 7 sacred directions...to let the energies of each cleanse and heal as I was walking...and opening my spinal cord up to new possibilities... It was yummy, and I felt like an internal barrier I held was moved, shifted and melted away.

Munay Ki

So, I got a chance to look the stories that I create around what I've been calling the "healed Masculine"....which, of course presupposes that the Masculine I have known and that has the potential to have healed would be the 'Wounded' Masculine...terms I've heard bandied about for years now...especially within the shamanic courses and paths I've walked. And I've American friends who claim this election is about choosing between the old Wounded Masculine archetype and the new Healed Masculine archetype.... Such polarity... And I got to visit with a "healed" masculine in the form of my teacher of the Wheel that I traveled...and friends, woman of my generation...who walk with varying degrees of awareness...falling all over themselves as they sought to create story about their connection to this "healed" masculine energy.... which of course, gave me a birds eye view of my own story creation around that very issue. If the story I create is that the masculine of the 50's...my dad's fathering generation... and of the 60's....my ex-husband's generation, is a wounded version of masculine (and I'm not arguing here either for or against that, as a premise)... and that the stories I created around how the males with that masculine energy connected with me...and I with them...or didn't connect...then it follows that my connection to someone who is doing masculine with a pretty solid connection to their feminine side (what I may be labeling as the healed masculine, I can't say for sure that is what I was thinking when I thought 'healed masculine) could be at levels I was unable to achieve (at least easily) with a masculine that didn't readily connect to their feminine energy... (I'm guessing this is why many women of my generation have said that every woman should have a gay friend...and that we joke about the only 'good' men already have a boyfriend...). So my teacher who is from the Western Coast of the USA, is here in my little town, teaching a Master's Course from the path I traveled... And it was fascinating to be back within the energy of his eyes, and to watch the women in the course, and those that came just for the fire...as they created and recreated story around him, and then around each other... And, I was able to just observe it...

To watch the energy flows, to allow them to be, and to not create a story of my own. YES! That felt like freedom... To not feel any compulsion to get into a story, to create a story...to be a part of anyone else's story. Which leads me to wonder at the polarity that I have used in my past story creation, around the Wounded Masculine, and the path to its healing...and the need for it to healed... And the Feminine...and its victimhood...and the need for it to be healed and to create a new Healed Feminine.... And the stories I've created at all...around wounding and being wounded and in need of healing, growth, fixing... AND I'm sitting with compassion for the "wounded", "imperfect" aspects of my Self...and rather liking what it feels like to not have the drama of having to be better. Munay Ki

My American friends got their "healed Masculine". It has been so long since I've come to this thread, and given the conversations happening in the Sacred Feminine, I felt I could balance what I transferred to my journal from there, with what I had written here. I am sometime amazed to read my own writing.... I was amazed to see the same stories I told here, that I told in the Sacred Feminine. Maybe not so far apart that they need to be separate...mmm Munay

*Soft smile* I can't tell you how many times it's come to my mind to combine the two forums since we put them up. Yet something always stopped me. They are very different at times and at others much the same; it seems as if you're finding that balance point, Wyn!

Between what you said here ((((Cinnamon)))) and what MonSnoLeeDra2 said in White Crow's new post in "Walk" about being a wheel... And the fact that I went to Tai Chi for the first time since I blew out my back, and sat in Wave Hands as Cloud, which so holds the energy of the Taoist symbol of Yin and Yang.... I'm feeling today, the flow I spoke of several posts back in this thread... Not a separation on linear terms, which my mind runs too, as a cultural preference...but the sphere of swirling, merging but not mixing (in the sense that the separateness is completely lost in the muddying of the two) flow of one to the other...to create the whole. I've a lot to think about, and more importantly allow to sink into my tissues, and experience from the conversations that have occurred here in the last two days.

My gratitude again to you, Cinnamon and all those who support you in creating this safe space for me to come to, to do my journey in the written word/world. Munay

And of course, this all opens up a new remember for me... I am remembering a time just after my ex left, when I was feeling particularly overwhelmed by all i needed to do, and wanted help from my sons (then 17, 15, 12-3, and 7) and I was, in my less balanced state, asking for their help while making them feel terrible for the way that they did not, and do not help...and as I am a skilled debater, I had all my evidence of their lack lined up and ready to deliver.... And when I'd finished, I asked if I was wrong in my perception...if there was something they were doing and I wasn't giving them credit....The response was... Silence... Which set me off, because it was how my ex had always avoided talking about anything .... Silence... "I don't know what to say, Pen"... "You may have a point, Pen"... He never engaged. Nothing ever changed, except that I would have let go of some of the energy that was spiraling around inside me, and could then find balance in my unbalanced world again. I labelled it later, passive aggressive, and I may or may not be right about that...it makes no difference... My response to the silence was to ask if they truly had nothing to say...if they didn't even care enough to answer me...for now I see that I saw that lack of engaging as a sign I wasn't worth the effort to engage with.... My eldest showed his bravery that day... He said... "Mom, when you are like this, it is really hard to answer you, because anything we say will have no weight against what you've lined up to counter it. I have things to say, but I am too overwhelmed to be able to say them at this time." I cried.

I cried, because he cared enough to be brave enough to face me down in my full "warrior" (for lack of a better word) mode. I cried because he loved me, enough to engage me, when engaging me was a scary thing to do. He won that day, just by saying..."I see you, even if I can't respond to you, I see you." I think that I've known a lot of Warrior wannabes in my lifetime, and that I've never actually met one who was willing to love me enough to face me down. Maybe that doesn't make any sense. English leaves a lot to be desired. My Dad can't hold an argument, because he gets unreasonably attached to a point of view that can't be defended. My ex, didn't engage...made him uncomfortable....My poor sons, are always going to be my sons, so my position as 'Mom' makes it difficult to take me on, as an equal. My youngest did too...a few years back, over marijuana. I'm against it....vehemently... My sons all engage. I caught my youngest smoking up at age 12 (a joint he'd stolen from my next oldest son). He was devastated and promised me he would never do it again, EVER. I remember looking him in the eye, and telling him, not to make promises that would be hard to keep...that I'd accept a promise that he wouldn't for a year, and that we would discuss it before that changed, but to promise never, left him breaking a promise to himself, as well as to me, and that that would be more damaging than smoking up, in my eyes.

The next year, we discussed it, and he again promised me a year. (he was still growing- and he wanted to be tall, so my best sales point on abstention was it interfering with the maximum height that his body might attain, given he was poisoning it at the level of breath)... At age 14 and 6' tall, just before his 15th birthday, he informed me that he would smoke up, if he wanted to, and the opportunity presented itself. My arguments hadn't changed, he acknowledged their validity...and he was going to do it anyway. I was so proud of him. Not for the decision...I still think it sucked...but for the ability to look me in the eye and disagree with a position I'm very firm on. I admire the Masculine in any gender that can do that...My best friends do it. (Doesn't come up much, but when it does, the three of us disagree, and agree to do so, and it doesn't affect the relationship, the respect, the love at all). I've been looking for that in the Masculine all my life... I think maybe, I'm just finding it now within myself.

MonSnoLeeDra2, I don't know if you come here, but I see that same thing in you....and I'm so grateful for having been given the opportunity to engage with you. To learn more about who you are. To see a Warrior on a Warrior's Path and recognize it, in its balanced form. Munay

wynsong7 wrote: MonSnoLeeDra2, I don't know if you come here, but I see that same thing in you....and I'm so grateful for having been given the opportunity to engage with you. To learn more about who you are. To see a Warrior on a Warrior's Path and recognize it, in its balanced form.

Thank you for your kind words. But I must insist on one point, one engages an opponent in the struggle, one embraces and travels with a friend. I do not see an opponent before my cyber eyes but one whose energy reminds me of a close friend and travelling companion. That we may disagree on things is of no matter in the greater scheme of things only that we speak and return to speak again on anther day. Though I do freely admit I am stubborn so the speak may be difficult at times, but just as the sun rises each day to return to the landscape so too will I.

Between what you said here ((((Cinnamon)))) and what MonSnoLeeDra2 said in White Crow's new post in "Walk" about being a wheel... And the fact that I went to Tai Chi for the first time since I blew out my back, and sat in Wave Hands as Cloud, which so holds the energy of the Taoist symbol of Yin and Yang.... I'm feeling today, the flow I spoke of several posts back in this thread...

*Soft smile* Sometimes it's good to reveal our passions and perspectives and look at those of others. I'm very happy for you Wyn, being in the flow is a good feeling. There are times we just need to let that carry us and float as we take in the landscape. Sort of reminds me of a lazy, hazy summer day of pondering and doing nothing in particular other than to let our thoughts wander a bit and explore the world inside and out wherever we find ourselves. Not a separation on linear terms, which my mind runs too, as a cultural preference...but the sphere of swirling, merging but not mixing (in the sense that the separateness is completely lost in the muddying of the two) flow of one to the other...to create the whole.

Nods. Separation...the swirling and the dance in and out of it. That's part of what drew me to follow Crow's lead and begin a new thread in WYT too. I'm sure that will give you lots to munch on as well. I got passionate.

“I've a lot to think about, and more importantly allow to sink into my tissues, and experience from the conversations that have occurred here in the last two days.”

I think we all do. I'm still letting the post in Crow's new thread sink in before I discern if I can contribute or not.

“My gratitude again to you, Cinnamon and all those who suppport you in creating this safe space for me to come to, to do my journey in the written word/world. You are always so gracious. I love the Lodge and all who comprise it deeply, and it is the community that makes it what it is as much as anything I might do.”

We'll be keeping it this way. Once again thank you for sharing, I love reading your posts and watching you walk through your perceptions.

I am technically challenged, please ignore. I am so glad you came here, and read my thanks.

“Thank you for your kind words. But I must insist on one point, one engages an opponent in the struggle, one embraces and travels with a friend. I do not see an opponent before my cyber eyes but one whose energy reminds me of a close friend and travelling companion. That we may disagree on things is of no matter in the greater scheme of things only that we speak and return to speak again on another day.” I laughed out loud when I read this, even while I acknowledge with absolute conviction your feelings....I too felt companionship as we discussed our differing viewpoints....but the English

language again is inadequate to the task, or it is part and parcel with the cultural things I have absorbed that I used the word engaged... When a man asks a woman to walk with him through life, we call them engaged. Maybe that is why we struggle so, in our culture with the relationship that ensues...because we become engaged, as if with an opponent, instead of embracing and travelling with a friend. Embracing and travelling with a friend, is how I would describe how I would want to be 'engaged', if I were ever to walk that path again. So if it happens, I will call it something other than being engaged. Thank you for that too. Though I do freely admit I am stubborn so the speak may be difficult at times, but just as the sun rises each day to return to the landscape so too will I.

This in particular sounds very comforting.

“When a man asks a woman to walk with him through life, we call them engaged “

That is one phrase or notion I refuse to acknowledge or speak in that capacity. I always say they are joined and united. To me to say one is engaged simply indicates that at some time they will separate from the engagement. But to be joined and united says to be together for a long time, for we willingly join with something we find needed and want to be with and unite always for the long haul of life.

Somehow that does not surprise me, MonSnoLeeDra2. I had never given the word any thought, just accepted it. I will give it some thought from now on.

And factoring in a Wheel, I've no idea whether this fits into the Masculine... but here goes. MonSonLeeDra was wonderful and helped me understand his concept of being a Wheel... and so I went to me journal, of course, and sat with that... this is the result...and then a response to my journal entry from one who knows me well. Munay July 14th, 2009, So His Version of Wheel Explained, and it makes perfect sense in context of the way I tell my story. Which will be a "damn it". In a room full of windows, most people have to go to each one, and look out to take in what is outside... I take it all in at once, from the center of the room. It is exactly what happens when I'm reading something, or in a classroom.... I never get what the people beside me get from the movie, the story, the person speaking...I get

tons more. I immediately start applying what I'm taking in, to all that I already know...it is how I learn. It is why I remember. It is how I operate in the world as I perceive it. AND I hate being limited... So Spirit said... COOL...not limits...take it all in. So MonSnoLeeDra, suggested that I pull down some shades and rest... I have trouble doing that, because, it feels like I'm limiting me. And you know what... It is exactly what I need to do. I need to limit me, because if I don't, then someone/thing outside of me has to. I need to create my own Chaos, unbalance the energy of the Wheel as it were, because if not, I'm always blaming someone else for doing it...and I am not Co-Creating. I'm tired... and I'm going to take myself up to bed...and rest, if not sleep. I've taken muscle relaxants again, for the first time, in a long time. Munay My friend's response...it made me laugh…and of course, she sees me more clearly than I'm able to see myself. Munay I've often found that with you and movies/books. I feel I've enjoyed the movie or book and got something really cool out of it. And when it's over, I take what I choose to take, and instantly forget everything else about it, including the plot. Generally I only remember how I felt about it and nothing else. And then you talk about it in such vivid details and I wonder if we even watched the same movie. You have lived it, and it sticks with you. And maybe yes, you need to limit your brain and your body a bit. Or the universe will do that for you. Maybe I could try a few other windows on occasion. xoxo

So a new way of doing my journey...is presenting itself. One in which I choose the limits, and which shades to pull. One in which I create the chaos that feeds me, and claim my creation.

Oy...no wonder I'm feeling tired. Thankfully I have a bit of time off from work, but I'm moving head long into possibly uprooting how I live my life, and where.

Ah Wynsong, That is the masculine side of the warrior path. Analyze what stands before you and impedes your progress and undermines your abilities. Then to take that info and change your approach to turn the negative to a positive trait and utilize it to make you more balanced as you advance to your next encounter or engagement. Don't leave it to another to create your reality but to make your reality yours alone and control what enters and how. To turn your weakness to a strength and to take the strength from another and make it their weakness to be exploited upon the field of battle. Yes I have modified my notion from the field of armed conflict to the field of battle for many forms of battle may occur.

Thanks MonSnoLeeDra for all your help in moving me along on this.

I like this a lot! *Big smile*

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