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Praying Peace Discussion
by Wynsong
Alberto Villoldo tells a story about
the Laika (high Andes Shaman) who pray Rain. He with his PhD,
could tell them all kinds of facts about water, but with all
that knowledge, he could not pray Rain, and have rain come....
Well I'd like to pray Peace...I'm going to go meditate this,
but while I'm doing it....if anyone has any thoughts on how
I can go from knowledge of Peace...to Praying Peace....I would
be eternally grateful.
Mouse:
Would,
in that story, the shaman already be praying thanks for the
rain as though it was already there? As in, there is always
rain somewhere, the ingredients for rain are always there, it's
not as if there *isn't* rain... Also, prayer comes from the
heart and is in balance from Universal and Earthly energies
(energies from above (in through the crown) and energies from
below (in through the root), mixing in the heart center, and
coming out through love. Prayer doesn't come from the head.
Knowledge can close one off. I have now all the knowledge there
is about this topic, so now I can close myself off and start
spreading this info. It's a monologue that way, a one-way street
once that knowledge has been absorbed. So it's responsive and
it's external. Prayers are receptive, based on dialogue, on
openness, on internal. Just some thoughts. (For me there's a
difference between praying FOR peace, and praying peace. Praying
for peace sort of implies that there is no peace. Praying peace
acknowledges, strengthens and affirms the current and available
peace.)
WhiteBuffaloWoman:
Wynsong, As I read your post, I thought why not bring
peace? Why not model peace? In the URBAN SHAMAN, King discusses
grokking. Why not grok peace? In practicing grokking, in January
in Minnesota, I set out to grok rain. (Now you have to be careful
what you grok), expectantly, we had a thunderstorm. A thunderstorm
with real raindrops and lightning...in January...(Minnesota)....From
your other posts, I know you are worried for your town. Grok
peace. Watch what happens.
SwanFeather:
I think that
what both Mouse and Sonja are saying are kind of the same thing.
Peace IS. It's opening to being the channel for it that makes
a difference. Let it flow through and manifest. If it remains
in the head...or even the heart...it doesn't manifest. Open
to it flowing through...that is really what prayer is anyway.
And you become the living of it that way.
Wynsong:
Thanks ((((Mouse)))), ((((Sonja)))), and ((((SwanFeather)))).
I'm thinking along the same lines, and letting it live within
me.
It isn't about my town, actually...I
live 1/2 hour away, and on undisputed lands (as far as I know-
it is a very old town- very much pre 1812- so hopefully)...although
I do have a cottage in Ipperwash (again, on what are supposed
to be undisputed lands, but who really knows, as it is a very
small strip of land between that which are now occupied, and
only a little south of the Pinery, which was occupied briefly
last year...so nothing is ever for certain), so I'm very aware
of the tensions, of how quickly things can sour, and of the
consequences for everyone when it ends badly...and I've got
kids going to my cottage this weekend, so there may be some
hidden anxiety making me more focused than I might normally
be on the issue.... But it is really about all of these kinds
of tensions everywhere....the Middle East, here, in the UK (although
that seems to have settled down somewhat), Tibet.... all the
places where people are fighting over land, philosophy, differences...I
want to pray Peace, so big, that the next evolution of mankind
(maybe 2012 as they are predicting now) will be ushered in with
minimum loss of life and polarization of those living now...I
want to pray PEACE, in a way that is so big...I admit I'm a
little afraid to do it... the little voice that says, who am
I? to be praying PEACE for other people....that it will bring
about Peace and Understanding...and a letting go of some of
the old Mythologies that have us even believing we can own a
piece of Mother Earth for our own exclusive use..../abuse???
I want to Pray Peace Arthurian ....as a Snow Goose....flying
above the land and discovering it doesn't have lines on it,
and areas don't come in colors demarking "Difference."
I'm ranting...I know ... In the end it will no doubt be about
me...and my fears.... I have no problem praying PEACE for myself
and my little space (although I'm a little weak on Praying financial
abundance and orderly environment for myself)....but I'm having
trouble allowing my Self to go to a place that is so big, it
will allow for manifestation BIG....a place where I get to manifest
for others....there is a huge barrier in my mind on that...and
if I can step beyond my fears, and I'm working on /doing it...then
that will be one more person, who has successfully managed to
pray PEACE... Have we even come close to critical mass yet????
Rant over...for the moment...but only because my taxes are calling.
Munay chi (((ALL of SP))) I wonder if we could create a non-local,
not time limited moment in time/space to focus all the Prayers
of those who have ever, and will ever Pray PEACE into one moment...?
I wonder what would happen then... I saw Dr. Emoto on the weekend...Water
that is prayed Peace over is so beautiful and ordered...water
that is prayed hate over is so not beautiful and chaotic (entrophic)...Is
Praying PEACE, another way to have and continue CONFLICT...?
Aggghhhh....no more thinking...
Mouse:
((((((((Wynsong))))))))))
The opposite of Life is not Death. There is no opposite of Life.
The opposite and synonym of Death is Birth.
Peace doesn't mean
the absence of conflict, of duality, of polarization or war.
Peace isn't the opposite of these things either. Perhaps that
is what your hesitation is about? And choosing for an opposite
of what you are "against" will once again enforce
polarization and duality, and "right" and "wrong".
We find war, conflict and the like are "wrong" only
when we have it going on within ourselves (it's not *neutral*
yet). What is "wrong" with conflict and war Wynsong?
Why shouldn't it be there? I am not asking this in a provocative
manner, but more as a jiggle, questions you may want to explore
for yourself. Apparently something is "right" (=judgment)
about peace, and something is "wrong" (= another judgment)
about war/conflict. The duality of right and wrong there is
misplacing the meaning of peace (because peace is unified, not
polarized, and secondly, peace is not the opposite of war/conflict).
Too many people are still too comfortable in their current lives.
As long as they're sitting comfortably or even restlessly IN
their comfort zone, nothing will change for them. They'll have
to move to the edge (whether or not through external circumstance)
in order to find creativity and inner questioning. Those who
can still comfortably afford the oil prices at the moment are
not questioning fuel alternatives yet. Those who can no longer
afford fuel prices are starting to(or already have) change their
ways, priorities, beliefs and values about fuel, environment,
depletion, etc. It won't be long before critical mass is moved
to the edge of their comfort zone and comes to Life (creativity,
God/Spirit) again Wynsong.
Katt:
Not
sure how to word this, because it's more of a feeling and an
image than anything else...but the sense I get is that once
you balance in peace, feel the energies of it in your heart,
when you pray PEACE in the full understanding of it, with no
attachment to the how's, why's or how come's, entering into
it without fear, your prayers will ripple with amazing growth
through the Web, with each circle of ripples growing larger
and larger. Your prayer ripples will join other ripples, which
in turn will spread larger ripples, joining others etc., etc.
It's actually very, very beautiful Wysong, and I thank you for
posting this. It was a gift for me to see those images. And
tonight, while working with the New Moon energies, I will join
you in prayers for peace.
Mouse:
Wow, Katt
- those are beautiful images. Thank you for sharing those, and
I too will sit with peace this evening.
Wynsong:
Thanks (((Mouse))), I know I'm at war within myself...unless
I have someone outside of myself to go quiet for. I am not still
for me... I am not at peace for me... I know those things and
still want the world to be different... I want the landscape
of the land to be a different color, one I like better... I
know everything your wrote, and I so thank you for writing it,
so I could see it...and my Self. (((Katt)))....thank you....That
is what I want... I want to Pray PEACE, be PEACE ....with ((you))...and
with ((Mouse))...and with ((everyone)) else here or anywhere
else who wants to Pray PEACE tonight...in this new Moon... I
want to Pray an Abundance of Peace PAID IN FULL by the Law of
the Universe....tonight...with the full energy of a new moon.
Thank You....I knew there was something I was trying to ask...if
only I wouldn't get in the way.
Earthwalker:
Wynsong,
The energies of extremes are very strong right now and have
been for me for the past several months. Everything seems to
be presenting itself or themselves as polar opposites. Initially
I was frustrated but I found that the energies are neutralized
as their subjectivity is given respect and allowed to flow through
you in acceptance if not agreement or even in voice opposition.
Let the high levels of energy simply flow into Mother Earth.
Be at peace in the vortex of the extremes. Stand as a funnel
grounding the extremes. New life is being brought forth as the
extremes are voiced and balanced.
Mouse:
“Stand
as a funnel grounding the extremes.”
I think that is a
very important thing to reiterate. Thank you Earthwalker!
Earthwalker:
Mouse,
I think it important too. Admittedly, though it is hard at times.
I found this discussion which helped. I cannot remember the
reference. Objectivity vs. Subjectivity and the truths of life.
The universe is objective and relative at the same time. The
material events of the universe are objective facts, but their
perception by the living beings is relative, and that turns
what was objective into a subjective universe. For example,
the radiations produced and sent out to roam the space by the
sun are objective, even measurable in their ample scale, yet
their refraction on objects and the effect is subjective: the
rose that appears red to us is grey for a dog and (I think)
greenish for a man who suffers for daltonism. For this reason,
the statement "the rose is red" and "the rose
is greenish" would both be subjectively true and both objectively
false, being the rose is neither red or greenish per se, but
its color depends by the observer. For the same reason, there
is not an objective philosophical or rational truth without
a pre-defined set of rules.
The simplest
example can be made in what is the most objective field of knowledge:
mathematics. The statement 1+1=2 is true in a decimal pre-defined
contest that we assume as the one ruling at the moment, but
as soon as we change the environment, 1+1 can be equal to 0
(binary). A Greek philosopher (Gorgias from Lentini) had already
elaborate that centuries before the advent of Christ, summarizing
that intuition as "Nothing is, if something is we cannot
perceive it, if we can perceive it we cannot communicate it
to others", meaning nothing really exist as we think
it does as we couldn't really perceive it in its objectiveness
because we'd have to face our subjective limits (be them our
limited perceptive senses or the filters given by our mental
schemes or the prejudices coming from our experiences). If by
a miracle we could overcome those obstacles, we couldn't communicate
the result of our observations to others, because they, having
a different experience and different mental schemes, wouldn't
understand it the way we perceived it. The consequence is that
the universe is at the same time objective and subjective, and
truth is at the same time possibly absolute, but practically
relative.
Now this
absence of absolute objective truth is usually overlooked: we
need a system of landmarks to live our life and not being able
to rely on them it is usually cause of a spiritual revolution
or downright madness. We are usually given this system and then
modify it or outright change it as we grow up, yet we always
have one, be it a religious faith, a political doctrine or the
set of common sense directions our parents or our wise grandfather
gave us. The idea of a life without reliable truths is overwhelming,
it's a horror no one can really live with, is a black pitch
in which the mind gets lost and the hope of operating a choice
based on something else then purely casual criteria is irremediably
lost. But… sometimes, just sometimes, maybe we should stop
and remember that our unquestionable truths are so only as long
as we decide to remain within the system we have created them,
but might lose much of their power, even all of it, one step
beyond the gates of our own universe, which for as important
we might considerate, it might be objectively a very limited,
or particular, one. The truths we use as the directions of our
acts are like a system of laws and also to them can be applied
what a German jurist said "Whole libraries of laws can
be made void and destroyed by a simple trait of pen of the legislator".
SwanFeather:
Mmmm...thanks,
Earthwalker. A good reminder. I've had the same experience with
those extreme energies these last few months. Keeping that objectivity
and funneling...yeah, it's been very difficult. Very. Especially
this last week for some reason. Seems to be escalating.
Earthwalker:
Swan
Feather, I agree the energies especially this past week have
been intense. The quote just reminds me to let judgment go;
I am only seeing from one subjective perspective.
Wynsong:
Going out to ground now
(((Earthwalker))), thank you for all of that.
CinnamonMoon:
When
we pray for anything, becoming the conduit for that energy and
attuning to it is important. It's as simple as sitting with
the thoughts, feeling them and how you react to them. Using
Peace as an example, coming into a state of peace ourselves
is what is necessary...so we open to Spirit, let the peaceful
Love of Spirit flow into us, flow through us, flow from our
hearts out into the world. Releasing the energy to the World...not
a specific area or person or situation but to the greater whole
is all it takes. Think Peace, Be Peace, Share Peace. Let it
flow from you in this way
and you are doing a very powerful thing. Peace is a state of
being that is quiet when it comes in, at least in my experience,
it's very subtle and relaxing, calming and soothing...it's 'there'.
All we have to do is intend to share it with others and it's
done. You can incorporate that in your daily prayers and be
a Warrior of Peace that way. I'll be joining all of you this
evening.
Minna:
Wynsong, Mouse, Earthwalker,
SwanFeather, White Buffalo Woman, Katt, Cinnamon. The peace
within me honors the peace within you. The search for balance
within me honors the search for balance within you. The small
vortex, the small funnel within me honors this within you. Perhaps
too this place, Spirit Lodge is also a small vortex. We each
bring our struggle for balance, for peace here to work with.
We share the work with each other. There are other vortexes
all over doing the same work. And it is all part of One. The
internal struggle, the search for peace, mirrors the external.
As we do this process, individually, and together we seek peace
and we speak peace. We reassure the one who is struggling at
the moment that we hold peace for them, and they in turn do
the same for us as we struggle. There are moments of the descent
of the great Peace to our small 'peaces'. Funny that equilibrium
is always moving. Watch a bird on a limb how he adjusts without
thinking to the wind, the branch moving. He knows how to find
his equilibrium and he knows it is a moving thing. The struggle
of those who intentionally seek peace may be a part of the greater
process. As we struggle and reach for what is already there
we refocus our equilibrium. And at the same time is the underlying,
abiding Peace which is also within us. We work, we relax, we
let go, we walk to find that which already is and to touch it
within ourselves. There are moments of being Home in Peace.
To touch the within and echo the without. Maybe. Ramblin.
Northernwolf:
I was going to add something
but I'll leave it at : what Cinn said. That pretty conveys what
I wanted to express. The only thing I could add would be based
on the concept of the dreamtime ( an Australian aboriginal concept
, although I'm pretty sure it’s found elsewhere under other
names ). When tapping into energies, everything is at a state
of creation, at a state of beginning so it’s possible to
use those energies the help shape a desired outcome. So if you
wish for peace of go and reach for the peaceful energies to
manifest them. It’s a process of co-creation. It pretty
much comes to what Cinn said though about manifesting them.
It’s just the take on the channeling aspect of it. I hope
I conveyed the concept well, I'm a little rusty and reaching
in parts of my memory that haven’t been accessed for a
while.
FireStarter/Karen:
I so loved reading you all
this morning. Deep heartfelt sharings here. I am moved by them
all. The funnel....what a visual! Perfect for this thread. Though....I
go on to think of all the judgement a funnel gets, especially
when it rips neighborhoods apart and people are killed. They
scare people to death. Including myself. I understand the funnel
and feel it in me. Insanity threatens me if I reach for logic.
There is no right or wrong here, just
movement. I usually don’t choose right or wrong but watch
the whirling dervishes and responses to them, as I look through
one of my many, many, windows of perception. I guess it is fear
that has me choosing left from right at times. Isn't it a good
day to die?
I love the thought of co-creation above
also Minna. We are painting every day a new landscape to live.
Man, I just saw a painting. A whirling funnel in the center
with black on one side and white on the other and they blend
into the funnel creating a rainbow, that shoots out of the center
of the funnel. My garden was very dry, for my spring garden,
so I asked for rain....knowing full well, when I asked for it,
I took the risk of getting all that is involved in instability,
that makes rain. But, I would rather have this rain and movement
than death to my garden. Rambling too. Thank you for this thread
Wynsong.
StarryNight:
Oh my goodness, I am very touched
by the wisdom and insight shared through this thread. Thank
you, my friends.
StarBearWalking:
I give Thanks for Peace
and feed it Love
Minna:
Earthwalker. Somehow
I just saw this. It just sprung out at me.
“But… sometimes, just
sometimes, maybe we should stop and remember that our unquestionable
truths are so only as long as we decide to remain within the
system we have created them, but might lose much of their power,
even all of it, one step beyond the gates of our own universe,
which for as important we might considerate, it might be objectively
a very limited, or particular, one.”
This is amazing. When I read this
just now, it was like I saw one of those fighters from StarWars
spinning out into darkness. Only it wasn't bad ~ just scary.
Spinning out into the greater truth. The Peace that passes understanding.
No good explanation of my idea is coming forth ~ just that image
and that phrase. It seems good to me. (In my very own little
starship.)
Earthwalker:
Minna
and Firestarter, Some thoughts as I read your posts. If peace
is a state of equilibrium and creation is part of peace then
to my mind we must accept different perspectives while also
honoring our own. Why? To me peace is a dynamic equilibrium
as opposed to a static one. Life doesn’t exist without
change. I then look at what drives change. Within a living organism
typically electrolytes drive system changes. Between humans,
perspectives and communication drive changes. Therein doesn’t
there need to be respect for both the living system as well
as the individual components that
make up the total sum? The imbalance between the component parts
creates the energy of change through its own perspective or
need. Yet it sets up an imbalance where there must be another
reaction in counter balance to it. I then look from this perspective
at what is going on in the world today and find creation moving
through it as new equilibriums come into play and I wonder in
awe as opposed to react in fear. I stand in space (larger perspective)
and look at the beauty of creation even as I watch the chaos
of change as a new system is re-defined and created. I stand
in respect for all views yet accept that we are each part of
creation as well. Yet at other times I acknowledge I am willing
part of the change through questioning and arguing and debating
ways to move forward and make change. I am thankful for the
Medicine Wheel since it helps me moderate frustration imposed
by ego. It demonstrates the dynamics of change, helps generate
respect for different perspectives, and reminds us of the larger
balanced perspective? Isn’t Peace finding the way to step
“one step beyond” while in acknowledgement that creation
evokes change and change is initiated by differences? Isn’t
Peace (possibly defined as Spirit) a living dynamic system?
We are like funnels grounding the energies of change in creation
of and as part of this living system. As a mini-system don’t
we each also grow through the pain of changes and find the counter
balance in joy and the larger perspective of balance, peace
or love (Spirit).
FireStarter/Karen:
In "my" medicine
wheel there is a pendulum. The farther South it swings the farther
North it will swing. You just gave me another visual. I have
never seen the pendulum move in the circular fashion I know
they can and do. THAT is powerful medicine. I had a very powerful
vision many years ago. I was in a large boat. The waters were
very, very, volatile. The safest place for me was in the center
of the boat, trusting the captain. We and I give lots of mention
to Mother Earth, but to the Creator, humm, there is where I
need to put my trust in times like these. I will help as much
as I can and watch and help others come to the center of the
boat with me, but I have to trust we will be out of turbulence
and into new a beautiful lands so crisp and clean that they
are a shock to my lungs and eyes. Maybe the lack of peace pushes
us into greater peace all the more. It does seem natural, doesn’t
it? If we think of the pendulum? And, it was this way with me....when
I was at my deepest bottom in alcoholism, is when I came up?
And I keep telling my Daughter who is going to give birth very
soon.....in birth, when the pain gets really, really, bad and
you can't take it anymore, that's when it's over.
Well, the labor pains in the world
are being felt and they are getting really bad......... Breath.
Trust. Get ready for a new arrival. Push one last big time.....
Maybe the pushes are our prayers for peace?
Lotus:
Wynsong … as
I read through this wonderful thread I thought of the many ways
peace has entered my life. It seems to me that as soon as I
stopped the war, peace found a way to enter my heart and spirit.
In my youth I didn't understand the connection between peace,
prayer and harmony but as time passed I connected the dots that
peace is the dynamic state of being whether inside an individual,
a community, or a culture, where disturbances of equilibrium
are danced with as opportunity ... and let's be honest, there
will always be a disturbance of one kind or another. Most of
us strive to be free and peace in my mind is freedom. Inner
peace is not found by staying on the surface of life, or by
attempting to escape from life through any means but by facing
life squarely, solving its problems, and delving as far beneath
its surface as possible to discover its verities and realities
…“excavating,” and relinquishing attachments
and negative thoughts and feelings … never an easy task.
But ... when we find peace within ourselves, we rise to our
full self-living in peace and at peace with ourselves and others.
I applaud you for questioning and honoring your truths and I
celebrate who you are Wynsong ... I believe this is a stepping-stone
for you ... a time of reflection and settling, a time of being
carefully prepared ... another step in the journey of being
able to express and share the special gift you bring to the
world.
Earthwalker:
Firestarter,
The pendulum does have swings and it seems the energies are
very strong even around things that are simply inconsequential.
An example I have been caught up in. My group decided to go
to a restaurant that they all liked for team building. I mentioned
the place to my manager. His feelings were that it’s too
expensive and takes too long. We went elsewhere but everyone
was mad about the micro-control. To resolve the issue I asked
if instead of controlling the choice of place he could instead
define his expectations in terms of time and cost and then respect
the choice the group made; after all, he wasn’t joining
us and he was in reality having team building activities over
lunch. Everyone agreed and we came up with estimates of 10-16
per person including tax and tip. We created cross functional
teams of three individuals and went to lunch in groups of three
with 40 to spend. We determined in this area about $12-13 per
person and hour and half is pretty much the norm; most people
were happy with this even though one would have to make choices
if certain establishments were chosen. The next day my manager
says I don’t see why people have to have sodas, they could
have water and they could share fries. Not wanting to argue
I agreed they were possibilities but that a drink with lunch
really wasn’t a huge expectation and some people didn’t
like sharing food off another’s plate. I added that we
needed to respect people opinions even though it would be a
cost savings. However, food could always be shared if individuals
chose to share it but it couldn’t be demanded. Grumpily
there was agreement. The exact same day, the company emailed
out their policy on food costs expectations. They established
food costs at $15 for breakfast, $25 lunch and $50 for dinner.
I just sat down and laughed as the inevitable questions were
brought up. It seems that there are daily polar opposite views
coming into effect on just about everything and all you can
really do is express an opinion, laugh and keep on walking and
be thankful for the weekend. Then again this weekend was filled
with discussions about the best heat to get in for this winter
(now that my daughter has an off the grid electric system) and
what lugs are available since her father is adding a controller
to the DC part of the system before he leaves for a year long
trip to sail around South American. Therein yesterday I was
helping my daughter pulling trash out of a beautiful stream
and was then invited to two parties at yacht clubs. Do you think
there might be middle road like having a hamburger off a clean
plate? I guess though there is some commonality; Both my ex-husband
and daughter are or will be off the grid, both are happy and
they are both talking after many years of silence. Therein the
polarities can be extreme but can also be quite comical if one
remembers to just enjoy the larger picture and see where it
takes us. Sometimes peace is simple found in observation of
the chaos.
FireStarter/Karen:
Earthwalker, How true! lol.
My hubby will be watching the news, (oh ya, go ahead and cringe)
and he'll get upset and say something sarcastic and it's often
the funniest scene of my whole day, just watching him watch
and see his face change and then the mouth open...LOL! Goodness.
But, that's exactly where I need to be, elevated, with a sense
of humor, when I'm responding to life. Everybody's looking out
a different window. You have a nice week. Heat alternatives.....now
there's a worthy discussion! We have heated only two rooms in
our home in the winter, for two years now. We keep the pipes
from freezing and are very cozy. Sometimes too cozy!
StarryNight:
Earthwalker I've enjoyed your
words. Thank you!
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Libraries
are on this row
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INDEX
Page 3
(Main Section, Medicine Wheel, Native Languages &
Nations, Symbology)
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INDEX
Page 5
(Sacred Feminine & Masculine, Stones & Minerals)
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2000-date
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