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Classic vs Core Shamanism
Ethics of Spellcasting
Ethics of the Native Sacred Point of View
Following Others Discussion
Galactic Gateways
Harvesting the Fruits of Aging Discussion
Ley Lines & Vortexes
Mazes, Labyrinths & Spiral Discussion
Mother Earth
Praying Peace Discussion
Seeing through Soft Eyes
Soul Retrieval Discussion
Soul vs Spirit Discussion
Spirit Names & Their Medicine

Praying Peace Discussion
by Wynsong

Alberto Villoldo tells a story about the Laika (high Andes Shaman) who pray Rain. He with his PhD, could tell them all kinds of facts about water, but with all that knowledge, he could not pray Rain, and have rain come.... Well I'd like to pray Peace...I'm going to go meditate this, but while I'm doing it....if anyone has any thoughts on how I can go from knowledge of Peace...to Praying Peace....I would be eternally grateful.

Would, in that story, the shaman already be praying thanks for the rain as though it was already there? As in, there is always rain somewhere, the ingredients for rain are always there, it's not as if there *isn't* rain... Also, prayer comes from the heart and is in balance from Universal and Earthly energies (energies from above (in through the crown) and energies from below (in through the root), mixing in the heart center, and coming out through love. Prayer doesn't come from the head. Knowledge can close one off. I have now all the knowledge there is about this topic, so now I can close myself off and start spreading this info. It's a monologue that way, a one-way street once that knowledge has been absorbed. So it's responsive and it's external. Prayers are receptive, based on dialogue, on openness, on internal. Just some thoughts. (For me there's a difference between praying FOR peace, and praying peace. Praying for peace sort of implies that there is no peace. Praying peace acknowledges, strengthens and affirms the current and available peace.)

Wynsong, As I read your post, I thought why not bring peace? Why not model peace? In the URBAN SHAMAN, King discusses grokking. Why not grok peace? In practicing grokking, in January in Minnesota, I set out to grok rain. (Now you have to be careful what you grok), expectantly, we had a thunderstorm. A thunderstorm with real raindrops and lightning...in January...(Minnesota)....From your other posts, I know you are worried for your town. Grok peace. Watch what happens.

I think that what both Mouse and Sonja are saying are kind of the same thing. Peace IS. It's opening to being the channel for it that makes a difference. Let it flow through and manifest. If it remains in the head...or even the heart...it doesn't manifest. Open to it flowing through...that is really what prayer is anyway. And you become the living of it that way.

Thanks ((((Mouse)))), ((((Sonja)))), and ((((SwanFeather)))). I'm thinking along the same lines, and letting it live within me.

It isn't about my town, actually...I live 1/2 hour away, and on undisputed lands (as far as I know- it is a very old town- very much pre 1812- so hopefully)...although I do have a cottage in Ipperwash (again, on what are supposed to be undisputed lands, but who really knows, as it is a very small strip of land between that which are now occupied, and only a little south of the Pinery, which was occupied briefly last year...so nothing is ever for certain), so I'm very aware of the tensions, of how quickly things can sour, and of the consequences for everyone when it ends badly...and I've got kids going to my cottage this weekend, so there may be some hidden anxiety making me more focused than I might normally be on the issue.... But it is really about all of these kinds of tensions everywhere....the Middle East, here, in the UK (although that seems to have settled down somewhat), Tibet.... all the places where people are fighting over land, philosophy, differences...I want to pray Peace, so big, that the next evolution of mankind (maybe 2012 as they are predicting now) will be ushered in with minimum loss of life and polarization of those living now...I want to pray PEACE, in a way that is so big...I admit I'm a little afraid to do it... the little voice that says, who am I? to be praying PEACE for other people....that it will bring about Peace and Understanding...and a letting go of some of the old Mythologies that have us even believing we can own a piece of Mother Earth for our own exclusive use..../abuse??? I want to Pray Peace Arthurian ....as a Snow Goose....flying above the land and discovering it doesn't have lines on it, and areas don't come in colors demarking "Difference." I'm ranting...I know ... In the end it will no doubt be about me...and my fears.... I have no problem praying PEACE for myself and my little space (although I'm a little weak on Praying financial abundance and orderly environment for myself)....but I'm having trouble allowing my Self to go to a place that is so big, it will allow for manifestation BIG....a place where I get to manifest for others....there is a huge barrier in my mind on that...and if I can step beyond my fears, and I'm working on /doing it...then that will be one more person, who has successfully managed to pray PEACE... Have we even come close to critical mass yet???? Rant over...for the moment...but only because my taxes are calling. Munay chi (((ALL of SP))) I wonder if we could create a non-local, not time limited moment in time/space to focus all the Prayers of those who have ever, and will ever Pray PEACE into one moment...? I wonder what would happen then... I saw Dr. Emoto on the weekend...Water that is prayed Peace over is so beautiful and ordered...water that is prayed hate over is so not beautiful and chaotic (entrophic)...Is Praying PEACE, another way to have and continue CONFLICT...? Aggghhhh....no more thinking...

((((((((Wynsong)))))))))) The opposite of Life is not Death. There is no opposite of Life. The opposite and synonym of Death is Birth.

Peace doesn't mean the absence of conflict, of duality, of polarization or war. Peace isn't the opposite of these things either. Perhaps that is what your hesitation is about? And choosing for an opposite of what you are "against" will once again enforce polarization and duality, and "right" and "wrong". We find war, conflict and the like are "wrong" only when we have it going on within ourselves (it's not *neutral* yet). What is "wrong" with conflict and war Wynsong? Why shouldn't it be there? I am not asking this in a provocative manner, but more as a jiggle, questions you may want to explore for yourself. Apparently something is "right" (=judgment) about peace, and something is "wrong" (= another judgment) about war/conflict. The duality of right and wrong there is misplacing the meaning of peace (because peace is unified, not polarized, and secondly, peace is not the opposite of war/conflict). Too many people are still too comfortable in their current lives. As long as they're sitting comfortably or even restlessly IN their comfort zone, nothing will change for them. They'll have to move to the edge (whether or not through external circumstance) in order to find creativity and inner questioning. Those who can still comfortably afford the oil prices at the moment are not questioning fuel alternatives yet. Those who can no longer afford fuel prices are starting to(or already have) change their ways, priorities, beliefs and values about fuel, environment, depletion, etc. It won't be long before critical mass is moved to the edge of their comfort zone and comes to Life (creativity, God/Spirit) again Wynsong.

Not sure how to word this, because it's more of a feeling and an image than anything else...but the sense I get is that once you balance in peace, feel the energies of it in your heart, when you pray PEACE in the full understanding of it, with no attachment to the how's, why's or how come's, entering into it without fear, your prayers will ripple with amazing growth through the Web, with each circle of ripples growing larger and larger. Your prayer ripples will join other ripples, which in turn will spread larger ripples, joining others etc., etc. It's actually very, very beautiful Wysong, and I thank you for posting this. It was a gift for me to see those images. And tonight, while working with the New Moon energies, I will join you in prayers for peace.

Wow, Katt - those are beautiful images. Thank you for sharing those, and I too will sit with peace this evening.

Thanks (((Mouse))), I know I'm at war within myself...unless I have someone outside of myself to go quiet for. I am not still for me... I am not at peace for me... I know those things and still want the world to be different... I want the landscape of the land to be a different color, one I like better... I know everything your wrote, and I so thank you for writing it, so I could see it...and my Self. (((Katt)))....thank you....That is what I want... I want to Pray PEACE, be PEACE ....with ((you))...and with ((Mouse))...and with ((everyone)) else here or anywhere else who wants to Pray PEACE tonight...in this new Moon... I want to Pray an Abundance of Peace PAID IN FULL by the Law of the Universe....tonight...with the full energy of a new moon. Thank You....I knew there was something I was trying to ask...if only I wouldn't get in the way.

Wynsong, The energies of extremes are very strong right now and have been for me for the past several months. Everything seems to be presenting itself or themselves as polar opposites. Initially I was frustrated but I found that the energies are neutralized as their subjectivity is given respect and allowed to flow through you in acceptance if not agreement or even in voice opposition. Let the high levels of energy simply flow into Mother Earth. Be at peace in the vortex of the extremes. Stand as a funnel grounding the extremes. New life is being brought forth as the extremes are voiced and balanced.

“Stand as a funnel grounding the extremes.”

I think that is a very important thing to reiterate. Thank you Earthwalker!

Mouse, I think it important too. Admittedly, though it is hard at times. I found this discussion which helped. I cannot remember the reference. Objectivity vs. Subjectivity and the truths of life. The universe is objective and relative at the same time. The material events of the universe are objective facts, but their perception by the living beings is relative, and that turns what was objective into a subjective universe. For example, the radiations produced and sent out to roam the space by the sun are objective, even measurable in their ample scale, yet their refraction on objects and the effect is subjective: the rose that appears red to us is grey for a dog and (I think) greenish for a man who suffers for daltonism. For this reason, the statement "the rose is red" and "the rose is greenish" would both be subjectively true and both objectively false, being the rose is neither red or greenish per se, but its color depends by the observer. For the same reason, there is not an objective philosophical or rational truth without a pre-defined set of rules.

The simplest example can be made in what is the most objective field of knowledge: mathematics. The statement 1+1=2 is true in a decimal pre-defined contest that we assume as the one ruling at the moment, but as soon as we change the environment, 1+1 can be equal to 0 (binary). A Greek philosopher (Gorgias from Lentini) had already elaborate that centuries before the advent of Christ, summarizing that intuition as "Nothing is, if something is we cannot perceive it, if we can perceive it we cannot communicate it to others", meaning nothing really exist as we think it does as we couldn't really perceive it in its objectiveness because we'd have to face our subjective limits (be them our limited perceptive senses or the filters given by our mental schemes or the prejudices coming from our experiences). If by a miracle we could overcome those obstacles, we couldn't communicate the result of our observations to others, because they, having a different experience and different mental schemes, wouldn't understand it the way we perceived it. The consequence is that the universe is at the same time objective and subjective, and truth is at the same time possibly absolute, but practically relative.

Now this absence of absolute objective truth is usually overlooked: we need a system of landmarks to live our life and not being able to rely on them it is usually cause of a spiritual revolution or downright madness. We are usually given this system and then modify it or outright change it as we grow up, yet we always have one, be it a religious faith, a political doctrine or the set of common sense directions our parents or our wise grandfather gave us. The idea of a life without reliable truths is overwhelming, it's a horror no one can really live with, is a black pitch in which the mind gets lost and the hope of operating a choice based on something else then purely casual criteria is irremediably lost. But… sometimes, just sometimes, maybe we should stop and remember that our unquestionable truths are so only as long as we decide to remain within the system we have created them, but might lose much of their power, even all of it, one step beyond the gates of our own universe, which for as important we might considerate, it might be objectively a very limited, or particular, one. The truths we use as the directions of our acts are like a system of laws and also to them can be applied what a German jurist said "Whole libraries of laws can be made void and destroyed by a simple trait of pen of the legislator".

Mmmm...thanks, Earthwalker. A good reminder. I've had the same experience with those extreme energies these last few months. Keeping that objectivity and funneling...yeah, it's been very difficult. Very. Especially this last week for some reason. Seems to be escalating.

Swan Feather, I agree the energies especially this past week have been intense. The quote just reminds me to let judgment go; I am only seeing from one subjective perspective.

Going out to ground now (((Earthwalker))), thank you for all of that.

When we pray for anything, becoming the conduit for that energy and attuning to it is important. It's as simple as sitting with the thoughts, feeling them and how you react to them. Using Peace as an example, coming into a state of peace ourselves is what is necessary...so we open to Spirit, let the peaceful Love of Spirit flow into us, flow through us, flow from our hearts out into the world. Releasing the energy to the World...not a specific area or person or situation but to the greater whole is all it takes. Think Peace, Be Peace, Share Peace. Let it flow from you in this way and you are doing a very powerful thing. Peace is a state of being that is quiet when it comes in, at least in my experience, it's very subtle and relaxing, calming and soothing...it's 'there'. All we have to do is intend to share it with others and it's done. You can incorporate that in your daily prayers and be a Warrior of Peace that way. I'll be joining all of you this evening.

Wynsong, Mouse, Earthwalker, SwanFeather, White Buffalo Woman, Katt, Cinnamon. The peace within me honors the peace within you. The search for balance within me honors the search for balance within you. The small vortex, the small funnel within me honors this within you. Perhaps too this place, Spirit Lodge is also a small vortex. We each bring our struggle for balance, for peace here to work with. We share the work with each other. There are other vortexes all over doing the same work. And it is all part of One. The internal struggle, the search for peace, mirrors the external. As we do this process, individually, and together we seek peace and we speak peace. We reassure the one who is struggling at the moment that we hold peace for them, and they in turn do the same for us as we struggle. There are moments of the descent of the great Peace to our small 'peaces'. Funny that equilibrium is always moving. Watch a bird on a limb how he adjusts without thinking to the wind, the branch moving. He knows how to find his equilibrium and he knows it is a moving thing. The struggle of those who intentionally seek peace may be a part of the greater process. As we struggle and reach for what is already there we refocus our equilibrium. And at the same time is the underlying, abiding Peace which is also within us. We work, we relax, we let go, we walk to find that which already is and to touch it within ourselves. There are moments of being Home in Peace. To touch the within and echo the without. Maybe. Ramblin.

I was going to add something but I'll leave it at : what Cinn said. That pretty conveys what I wanted to express. The only thing I could add would be based on the concept of the dreamtime ( an Australian aboriginal concept , although I'm pretty sure it’s found elsewhere under other names ). When tapping into energies, everything is at a state of creation, at a state of beginning so it’s possible to use those energies the help shape a desired outcome. So if you wish for peace of go and reach for the peaceful energies to manifest them. It’s a process of co-creation. It pretty much comes to what Cinn said though about manifesting them. It’s just the take on the channeling aspect of it. I hope I conveyed the concept well, I'm a little rusty and reaching in parts of my memory that haven’t been accessed for a while.

I so loved reading you all this morning. Deep heartfelt sharings here. I am moved by them all. The funnel....what a visual! Perfect for this thread. Though....I go on to think of all the judgement a funnel gets, especially when it rips neighborhoods apart and people are killed. They scare people to death. Including myself. I understand the funnel and feel it in me. Insanity threatens me if I reach for logic.

There is no right or wrong here, just movement. I usually don’t choose right or wrong but watch the whirling dervishes and responses to them, as I look through one of my many, many, windows of perception. I guess it is fear that has me choosing left from right at times. Isn't it a good day to die?

I love the thought of co-creation above also Minna. We are painting every day a new landscape to live. Man, I just saw a painting. A whirling funnel in the center with black on one side and white on the other and they blend into the funnel creating a rainbow, that shoots out of the center of the funnel. My garden was very dry, for my spring garden, so I asked for rain....knowing full well, when I asked for it, I took the risk of getting all that is involved in instability, that makes rain. But, I would rather have this rain and movement than death to my garden. Rambling too. Thank you for this thread Wynsong.

Oh my goodness, I am very touched by the wisdom and insight shared through this thread. Thank you, my friends.

I give Thanks for Peace and feed it Love

Earthwalker. Somehow I just saw this. It just sprung out at me.

“But… sometimes, just sometimes, maybe we should stop and remember that our unquestionable truths are so only as long as we decide to remain within the system we have created them, but might lose much of their power, even all of it, one step beyond the gates of our own universe, which for as important we might considerate, it might be objectively a very limited, or particular, one.”

This is amazing. When I read this just now, it was like I saw one of those fighters from StarWars spinning out into darkness. Only it wasn't bad ~ just scary. Spinning out into the greater truth. The Peace that passes understanding. No good explanation of my idea is coming forth ~ just that image and that phrase. It seems good to me. (In my very own little starship.)

Minna and Firestarter, Some thoughts as I read your posts. If peace is a state of equilibrium and creation is part of peace then to my mind we must accept different perspectives while also honoring our own. Why? To me peace is a dynamic equilibrium as opposed to a static one. Life doesn’t exist without change. I then look at what drives change. Within a living organism typically electrolytes drive system changes. Between humans, perspectives and communication drive changes. Therein doesn’t there need to be respect for both the living system as well as the individual components that make up the total sum? The imbalance between the component parts creates the energy of change through its own perspective or need. Yet it sets up an imbalance where there must be another reaction in counter balance to it. I then look from this perspective at what is going on in the world today and find creation moving through it as new equilibriums come into play and I wonder in awe as opposed to react in fear. I stand in space (larger perspective) and look at the beauty of creation even as I watch the chaos of change as a new system is re-defined and created. I stand in respect for all views yet accept that we are each part of creation as well. Yet at other times I acknowledge I am willing part of the change through questioning and arguing and debating ways to move forward and make change. I am thankful for the Medicine Wheel since it helps me moderate frustration imposed by ego. It demonstrates the dynamics of change, helps generate respect for different perspectives, and reminds us of the larger balanced perspective? Isn’t Peace finding the way to step “one step beyond” while in acknowledgement that creation evokes change and change is initiated by differences? Isn’t Peace (possibly defined as Spirit) a living dynamic system? We are like funnels grounding the energies of change in creation of and as part of this living system. As a mini-system don’t we each also grow through the pain of changes and find the counter balance in joy and the larger perspective of balance, peace or love (Spirit).

In "my" medicine wheel there is a pendulum. The farther South it swings the farther North it will swing. You just gave me another visual. I have never seen the pendulum move in the circular fashion I know they can and do. THAT is powerful medicine. I had a very powerful vision many years ago. I was in a large boat. The waters were very, very, volatile. The safest place for me was in the center of the boat, trusting the captain. We and I give lots of mention to Mother Earth, but to the Creator, humm, there is where I need to put my trust in times like these. I will help as much as I can and watch and help others come to the center of the boat with me, but I have to trust we will be out of turbulence and into new a beautiful lands so crisp and clean that they are a shock to my lungs and eyes. Maybe the lack of peace pushes us into greater peace all the more. It does seem natural, doesn’t it? If we think of the pendulum? And, it was this way with me....when I was at my deepest bottom in alcoholism, is when I came up? And I keep telling my Daughter who is going to give birth very soon.....in birth, when the pain gets really, really, bad and you can't take it anymore, that's when it's over.

Well, the labor pains in the world are being felt and they are getting really bad......... Breath. Trust. Get ready for a new arrival. Push one last big time..... Maybe the pushes are our prayers for peace?

Wynsong … as I read through this wonderful thread I thought of the many ways peace has entered my life. It seems to me that as soon as I stopped the war, peace found a way to enter my heart and spirit. In my youth I didn't understand the connection between peace, prayer and harmony but as time passed I connected the dots that peace is the dynamic state of being whether inside an individual, a community, or a culture, where disturbances of equilibrium are danced with as opportunity ... and let's be honest, there will always be a disturbance of one kind or another. Most of us strive to be free and peace in my mind is freedom. Inner peace is not found by staying on the surface of life, or by attempting to escape from life through any means but by facing life squarely, solving its problems, and delving as far beneath its surface as possible to discover its verities and realities …“excavating,” and relinquishing attachments and negative thoughts and feelings … never an easy task. But ... when we find peace within ourselves, we rise to our full self-living in peace and at peace with ourselves and others. I applaud you for questioning and honoring your truths and I celebrate who you are Wynsong ... I believe this is a stepping-stone for you ... a time of reflection and settling, a time of being carefully prepared ... another step in the journey of being able to express and share the special gift you bring to the world.

Firestarter, The pendulum does have swings and it seems the energies are very strong even around things that are simply inconsequential. An example I have been caught up in. My group decided to go to a restaurant that they all liked for team building. I mentioned the place to my manager. His feelings were that it’s too expensive and takes too long. We went elsewhere but everyone was mad about the micro-control. To resolve the issue I asked if instead of controlling the choice of place he could instead define his expectations in terms of time and cost and then respect the choice the group made; after all, he wasn’t joining us and he was in reality having team building activities over lunch. Everyone agreed and we came up with estimates of 10-16 per person including tax and tip. We created cross functional teams of three individuals and went to lunch in groups of three with 40 to spend. We determined in this area about $12-13 per person and hour and half is pretty much the norm; most people were happy with this even though one would have to make choices if certain establishments were chosen. The next day my manager says I don’t see why people have to have sodas, they could have water and they could share fries. Not wanting to argue I agreed they were possibilities but that a drink with lunch really wasn’t a huge expectation and some people didn’t like sharing food off another’s plate. I added that we needed to respect people opinions even though it would be a cost savings. However, food could always be shared if individuals chose to share it but it couldn’t be demanded. Grumpily there was agreement. The exact same day, the company emailed out their policy on food costs expectations. They established food costs at $15 for breakfast, $25 lunch and $50 for dinner. I just sat down and laughed as the inevitable questions were brought up. It seems that there are daily polar opposite views coming into effect on just about everything and all you can really do is express an opinion, laugh and keep on walking and be thankful for the weekend. Then again this weekend was filled with discussions about the best heat to get in for this winter (now that my daughter has an off the grid electric system) and what lugs are available since her father is adding a controller to the DC part of the system before he leaves for a year long trip to sail around South American. Therein yesterday I was helping my daughter pulling trash out of a beautiful stream and was then invited to two parties at yacht clubs. Do you think there might be middle road like having a hamburger off a clean plate? I guess though there is some commonality; Both my ex-husband and daughter are or will be off the grid, both are happy and they are both talking after many years of silence. Therein the polarities can be extreme but can also be quite comical if one remembers to just enjoy the larger picture and see where it takes us. Sometimes peace is simple found in observation of the chaos.

Earthwalker, How true! lol. My hubby will be watching the news, (oh ya, go ahead and cringe) and he'll get upset and say something sarcastic and it's often the funniest scene of my whole day, just watching him watch and see his face change and then the mouth open...LOL! Goodness. But, that's exactly where I need to be, elevated, with a sense of humor, when I'm responding to life. Everybody's looking out a different window. You have a nice week. Heat alternatives.....now there's a worthy discussion! We have heated only two rooms in our home in the winter, for two years now. We keep the pipes from freezing and are very cozy. Sometimes too cozy!

Earthwalker I've enjoyed your words. Thank you!

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