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Boundaries
Classic vs Core Shamanism
Ethics of Spellcasting
Ethics of the Native Sacred Point of View
Following Others Discussion
Galactic Gateways
God/dess
Harvesting the Fruits of Aging Discussion
Ley Lines & Vortexes
Mazes, Labyrinths & Spiral Discussion
Messiness
Mother Earth
Power
Praying Peace Discussion
Seeing through Soft Eyes
Soul Retrieval Discussion
Soul vs Spirit Discussion
Spirit Names & Their Medicine

 

Classic vs Core Shamanism Discussion

By 2CrowWoman
I recently found this comparison of Classic and Core Shamanism. Interesting reading. "shamanism types compared" link

CinnamonMoon:
A great article, Crow, thank you so much for sharing it.

Marila:
thank you, Crow... I was with a "classic" shamanic teacher - and I also attended basic teachings from Michael Harner´s Foundation in core shamanism, too. Both worked fine - for me both held "value"... *smile* In classic shamanism it was a deep touch words cannot say - this was my first contact with shamanism. It might be that for others it is similar also with core shamanism...Who "chooses" the path? Do we choose the path - or does the path choose us? Or is it a co-creative path...? *smile* to you so much, dear Crow...

StarryNight:
I enjoyed the article, Crow. I was unaware of the different named classifications, but I understand that people come to Shamanism on different paths, that people receive and give for different purposes and reasons, and that for some it is a title/identity and for others a way of living. However, I pause to wonder why the necessity to distinguish the approaches. Do you know anything about the author? I'm a little unsteady about the message of the article, despite enjoying the read. Perhaps, it is my emotional reaction to the text. I'll ponder it some more.

SwanFeather:
Interesting article, Crow. I wondered about the author, myself. I think there are likely more than two distinctions, but I get her basic premise. Thanks!

StarSister:
I enjoyed it, it answered some feelings I had. Thanks Crow.

2CrowWoman:
Cinn, SwanFeather and StarSister, glad you enjoyed reading it. Marila

“Who "chooses" the path? Do we choose the path - or does the path choose us? Or is it a co-creative path...? *smile*”

I think choice number three - the co-creative path. StarryNight I don't know anything about the author. I liked the article because it summed up clearly and simply information I'd read elsewhere about "classic" shamanism, but never found anyone who

did a simple summary of "core" shamanism.. Well.. except for articles here at Spirit Lodge that Cinnamon has written.

“I'm a little unsteady about the message of the article, despite enjoying the read. Perhaps, it is my emotional reaction to the text.”

I hope you learn lots through your reaction and pondering. I know I always have. The first time I read an article on shamanic death and some of the harsher beliefs/ways in some forms of aboriginal/classic shamanism I was quite shocked. But I was viewing other cultures through my own subjective eyes. Personally. I liked the clear easy to understand layout of this article, but I think a time may come when the differences between the types of shamanism become irrelevant. My personal belief is that the past, our heritage and ancestry, are our foundation, but not our future. The future of human spirituality is evolving and I strongly suspect that all forms will eventually find their "borders" blurring as we move forward. I see this article on the types of shamanism more as a guide to who we have been and are becoming than a strict set of "rules" we have to judge ourselves by.. or adhere to. But that's just my opinion.

WolfScout:
“Personally. I liked the clear easy to understand layout of this article, but I think a time may come when the differences between the types of shamanism become irrelevant. My personal belied is that the past, our heritage and ancestry, are our foundation, but not our future. The future of human spirituality is evolving and I strongly suspect that all forms will eventually find their "borders" blurring as we move forward. I see this article on the types of shamanism more as a guide to who we have been and are becoming than a strict set of "rules" we have to judge ourselves by.. or adhere to. But that's just my opinion.”

I agree. I think shamanism takes on a different meaning as it applies to what that person learns whether it be from an elder, a group, or through books and research because of lack of the two previous. Does that change the ability of the individual , not to me. I think it's important to have the "Urgings" to become involved and seek.

StarBearWalking:
Greetings! Thank you for sharing this with us. I found it to be a little confusing, as labels usually are.

“Why are there so few "classic Shamans" in the white Western demograhic?”

IMHO! Because over the centuries we have given our power away to the priest or pastor or vicar. Long, long time ago we too were connected to the Spirit of Place. I honor any Indigenous peoples who have kept their connection to the Spirits of Place. And I give Thanks to those who are willing to reteach us who have lost that connection, even if we must reconnect with Spirits of Place which are new to our DNA. A’ho!

WolfScout:
I agree with Bear on his post. Our Culture is trying to gain back Core beliefs not the term "core shamanism" the author seems to be coining. Also, as I read somewhere else

“Harner talks about core beliefs...not core shamanism...as a way to draw parallels between the beliefs of the shamans of very widely separated geographical and cultural areas. This isn't at all the same thing as what the author is referring to here, or trying to imply is what Michael is teaching. I think that is key to the article as well.

Minna:
Thank you too, Crow (Ha, 2Crow...gettit?) I accidentally made a pun . Good for me. I also enjoyed this article as well as a couple of others on the site. There was one about the intellectual/academic who interviews the shaman which I found very interesting. And one about the word 'shaman' which I very much enjoyed reading. I like the writing style of this person. I'm typing now on Bear's laptop, as my little puter's at the doctor. So please scuse any ~ more than normal ~ typing errors. Gosh I miss my clicky mouse. No e-mail either. Anyway, thank you too for this site. I may go and look around a bit.

CinnamonMoon:
There is a big difference between shamanism (the belief and practice for personal needs) and being a shaman too. Being a shaman is a calling and that's what's being addressed in the 'classic' aspect here. (IMHO) Practicing shamanism is the 'core' aspect. It's like practicing witchery, that doesn't make you a witch. Living it does. Living the shamanic life in service to Spirit and your community makes you a shaman. Traditionally or not. If you do the work that's what you are. If you build houses formally you're a contractor, whether you have a formal degree or not, you're a builder. Tradition dictates within the tradition but if you have no tradition and are called then you'll be shown several options that all hold what you're looking for. One of my first Medicine teachers expressed this to me in pointing out that if there is no teacher present and you need one, Spirit will create the lesson through experience, guide you to someone to help you, and take you on a journey of learning. The elements of nature will come into play and take over too. Over the years I experienced this on many levels and found it to be true. The Spirits of Place will teach us if we open to them and through them the elemental spirits Dance with us too. I love those lessons. They have a natural flow to them, and I find them to be customized in a way that makes them so appropriate for how I process things. It's the soft eye and ear though...because we need them to see it for what it is. Look back on your own journey, how Pat came into your life and others like her and unlike her to teach you things. Look at those who challenged you with the Shadow Lessons and those who brought you through lessons of Light. It all happened for a reason and as you grew in understanding you began to see what was what. It worked to get you where you are today and you've just blossomed so beautifully! You're able to walk forward now with conviction because of it. Yeah, it's hard knowing what's right at times, but all we have to do is turn to guidance with right intent and ask the 'right' question to find our answers. Then it's just a matter of trusting what we're shown and the process ahead of us to get us through.

Marila:
(((Cinn))), thank you for the deep aspects you shared here...

StarBearWalking:
Spirit doesn't give up on us, love to supportive Teachers also.

Minna:
Hi, there. Cinnamon, I liked this that you said: “There is a big difference between shamanism (the belief and practice for personal needs) and being a shaman too. Being a shaman is a calling and that's what's being addressed in the 'classic' aspect here.”

That's nice. I had to figure that out for myself too. It finally came to me how to explain, when people ask, "Are you a shaman?" (As if....) I just reply, is every Roman Catholic you know a priest? It's nice, they figure it out really quick. Ok, so I'm really an eclectic whatever, and it's not a philosophically correct statement. But it does the trick. Funny, when I was flying I wore a little medicine pouch that I have. If it weren't so bulky I'd wear it inside my shirt, but it would look like I have a really interesting growth if I did that. Anyway, a lady noticed it and asked if it were religious. I was just stumped. I must have looked like a fish out of water. I felt myself just sort of opening my mouth and then closing it, and then opening it again. Finally, I said, "It's spiritual, but not really religious. It's not like a Presbyterian pouch." Thank goodness, she didn't think I was being sarcastic. I don't think I looked smart enough to be sarcastic after my fish imitation. Anyway, she was satisfied with the answer and chuckled. Funny how the world will help us figure out how we fit this into ourselves.

CinnamonMoon:
Awwwww good replies Minna! Yes it is funny how there's a way for things to be accepted today that weren't quite like that even a few years ago. Evolutionary raising of consciousness is helping a lot of people over those hurdles. Good for you!

StarSister:
I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks everyone. Minna, you are so funny, you always give me a giggle and a boost and I really liked your way of answering "are you a shaman?" In love and gratitude.

StarryNight:
I've come to realize more about what has been bothering me about the concept of defining shamanism by terminology. I appreciate the distinction that is trying to be drawn, but there is something that still doesn’t sit well with me. Cinn, I appreciated your comments. I spent the weekend with a group of people. The focus was utilizing our imagination, that 98% of our brain that warehouses, organizes and retrieves information, by settling within ourselves and softening our hard focus and allowing ourselves to direct our attention on the beauty found within all of our senses. A few there clearly sought to be "shamans" and they made clear their intentions were for their own personal growth. Why was the title so important to them? I was very impressed by the teacher in all of her ways. Spirit was clearly present with her.

Toward the end of the weekend I still had not committed to more instruction and the teacher specifically sought me out to impress upon me how much she enjoyed working with me. The weekend was transformative in ways I find that I can't clearly articulate. When I looked at myself in the mirror on the 3rd morning of the instruction, I saw a different person. My eyes were bloodshot even after a good long sleep. My energy was unquestionably different. I didn't recognize who I was. I cried – the release was a good, pleasurable release. I looked deep into my own eyes and saw the changes within me. It was scary. But, I embraced the change, for it is something I wanted – to be more clear and confident in my direct knowing. My weekend was incredible. It was a wholly enriching experience. By the 3rd day I realized that I was so tired of hearing about how determined and in awe those few about being a "Shaman." They desperately wanted the title to own. I told the teacher that I want to grow into and with my experiences, and that the title isn't important to me. I want to utilize what I’m learning in the lives of those that I touch so that I touch them with love, compassion and so that Spirit may speak through me if that is what is to be done. The title isn’t important. For me it is a way of living, a way of experiencing, a way of trusting and a way of loving. A title doesn’t define me. I’m not sure where that puts me on any scale or within any designation….and does it really matter? Not to me. At least not now. All I know (and it isn’t much at all) is that this is how I live my life. It is who I am. I do the best I can. Wow. I said a mouthful for not know what I was going to end up saying!

WolfScout:
but what you said covers what most starting out on any path says and feels. the excitement of the new awakening, the uncertainty ..., the willingness to learn, the openness to new thoughts... Sometimes it's not enough to want; but to be pushed from within is much better. and it takes a long time for someone to amass the knowledge to be called shaman. is different than simply walking the path. This one word has so many levels and meanings within it. IMO

FireStarter/Karen:
Minna, your sense of humor strikes a chord within me....I like it! Thanks! Crow....thank you so much for this reading. I really like the site, a lot.

SwanFeather:
Oh, Starry! I'm so happy for you! Seems this weekend was postponed for just the right time, yes? You listened to what you felt was right and Bingo! It was! HAH! It sounds like you saw your Self with new eyes...no wonder they were bloodshot! And your new vision showed those around you in a new light as well! You were at the optimum time for the tools this teacher had to offer you. But when that happens it never seems to be quite what we expected. Finding our own feet on our own individual, unique path never really comes with a label of any sort, IMHO. That's because

there just doesn't need to be one...there can't be one. We are all so amazingly special and there is no one-size-fits all. The labels are for others who need to put things in a category for reference and understanding until their own eyes are opened to where their feet are. You weren't becoming "something" you are becoming StarryNight and that's altogether different! Wooohooo!

StarryNight:
Wolfscout, I am not grasping what you are saying. I am under the cloud of a heavy migraine, so I'm kind of foggy. I'd like to understand what you are saying, would you mind expanding on it?

Unregistered Guest:
Thank you for giving us this post. I've known of the difference, and it was great to have some points laid out. I was thinking of those who would strive to have a title... Some of the most inspirational moments, the most helpful moments of my life have been given through words of people without titles. One such moment, I was in one of the lowest places in my life. A time where I felt that there was no love for me, either from others or myself. I felt that perhaps, mine was a life not worth living. And on that day, a family friend visited, and simply told me that she cared for me, and that my life was worth living.... And I was forever changed by it. I don't think it bad to have titles. But sometimes I wonder if individuals “keep their eyes on the prize", and get tunnel vision. If perhaps they can lose out on such simple words and lessons.

StarryNight:
I had a rather long post prepared explaining the basis of my reaction, and intentionally deleted it. There is no need for that. Crow, as you proposed to me, I have indeed really come to own an aspect of myself through my reflection on my reaction to this article. I thank you posters for that. Many of your posts have touched those soft well protected places within me, breaking through barriers within me that I erected in part to avoid free uninhibited movement, to remain distant, and to fight for position about who I am and what is happening to me. I embrace and treasure all the beautiful changes within me and the expansiveness with which I feel life. I feel Spirit weave in and through everything, and I follow it as best I can creating my own tapestry as I bring Spirit with me as I walk from place to place. As you so eloquently said, Bear, I too have deep and immense respect for Indigenous People for who have kept and fostered connection to Spirit, and I honor those teachers willing to help us cultivate a connection with Spirit. May we all be willing to do the same in the ways we know how, as we are guided to do. StarBearWalking, Crow Woman, Cinnamon, and SwanFeather, your comments in this thread have been especially meaningful to me as I walk through this. And, Minna you summed it up well and it could not apply better for me right now.

“Funny how the world will help us figure out how we fit this into ourselves.”

StarBearWalking:
Starry night wrote this on the 11th: “For me it is a way of living, a way of experiencing, a way of trusting and a way of loving. A title doesn’t define me. I’m not sure where that puts me on any scale or within any designation….and does it really matter? Not to me.”

Very well said I'm not big on titles, I have a hard time with names, but I do usually remember

 

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