 |
SPIRIT
LODGE
LIBRARY
Main
Information
Page
36
|
(Main
Links of the site are right at the bottom of the page)
The 37 pages in this Main Information section are below.
What is Evil? Discussion
By DragonHawk
In the thread about what I have learned
on my sojourn in the UAE I was talking about the Darkness of
Creation. But darkness is a term we often use to describe something
that is negative or is having a negative effect in our lives.
To me there seems to be a link between the two terms in terms
of what we "seed" in our lives. Personally, I don't
believe in evil as a separate force from Creator, in opposition
to Creator and not under the direct control of Creator. I believe
that evil is man-made concept used to justify Man's inability
to look Within at attitudes and aspects of our selves that convention
would presume were far from perfect. I seeded my Journey in
the UAE by bringing the Light of Spirit into the Darkness of
the womb of Mother Earth: creating a Sacred Union to give birth
to the Journey. Although I had known intellectually about the
Union of Father Sky and Mother Earth for some time, I had never
sought to enact that Union to "create" something for
myself. Over the last twelve months, I had seen the economy
of the UK disintegrate as the credit crunch took hold. Job prospects
in my field, as a cost-and contract consultant in the construction
and property industries had disintegrated accordingly. Fear
drove me to create the Union, as the UAE property market was
still buoyant despite the credit crunch starting to be felt
in most areas of the rest of the World. Within a month of arriving
in the UAE, the markets changed here and deteriorated much more
rapidly than in the UK or US to a position worse than those
markets, at least in the short term. Unlike the UK, the UAE
does not really have government spending programs: the vast
majority of construction is privately funded, and when foreign
investors pulled their money out in an unprecedented hurry,
particularly in Dubai, the property market had a nasty shock.
Fear built on Fear and developers started cancelling, or at
least postponing indefinitely, the majority of projects that
had not yet started and even some that had, but were in the
early stages, such as the project I was involved with.
If we look back over history, and
events leading up to events like WWI & II, we can see a
similar fear mentality has been a factor in most wars, terrorist
attacks and other perhaps more mundane everyday events one might
consider "evil": murders and the like. Fear prevents
us looking Within, in case we do not like what we find there.
For my part, the fear was financial and goes back to scarcity
conditioning from my childhood. But it's easy to see how fear
builds on fear and its consequences if we do not stand back
from what is creating the fear and alter our perceptions. If
we allow the fears to build, we constantly seed lessons in the
Darkness, rather than seed energies that will fulfil our desires.
Each lesson reinforces the fear and our attempts to avoid the
fears seem to diminish our ability to retreat from them. If
we keep avoiding looking Within for long enough, and after enough
lessons, I think we run the risk or entering a darker (in the
traditional sense of the word) phase of fear. Hitler's fears
of failure and rejection (and probably many more fears) being
a case in point in this respect and an example of how fears
can lead to what is often perceived as "evil".
As I think I said in the original
thread, my decision to come to the UAE was mot evil, but it
did lead to a series of difficult lessons, that, given my own
knowledge of lessons, and a little help from my friends, I was
able to navigate. However, it is easy to imagine that if I had
not done the work I had done on my spiritual path, how I might
have considered blaming some external force or someone for the
situations I found myself in, as I did at first as the lessons
started to unfold: blaming my company for the mess I found myself.
In fairness, they had not acted as they had said they would,
so there was a degree of culpability on their part, but the
basic situation was one I had to resolve Within, as it was me
who was experiencing this lesson and I had brought the Journey
that led to the lesson into Creation. So that's my perception
of how evil is created. Even in the case of a man like Hitler,
I am not convinced that evil is not an aspect of the Light.
Perhaps mankind has a lesson to learn that Spirit could not
bring about in any other way than the way it did through Hitler.
I'm in no way trying to justify Hitler's actions, just understand
them and clarify my perception of what evil is.
On an everyday level, people speak
of dark (as I the traditional "evil" connotation)
entities. From my interpretation of evil above, these would
be thought forms created by an individual out of fear. The thing
I am not convinced about is whether these thought forms can
exist outwith an individual and obtain a life of their own.
I can conceive that these forms could be passed from one individual
to another: say from one person who holds a particular fear
to another who shares that fear: almost in a form of mirroring.
But to me that fear has to be already within us. If we hold
a healthy attitude in an area where another holds fears, surely
any "evil" associated with that particular fear would
not be transferable: we have learnt that lesson, and assuming
this was not, as Jamie Sam's puts it, a "pop quiz"
that fear would not affect us? In which case, any "dark
entity" that that fear creates would not affect us: would
we even perceive it? If we did would it have any hold over us?
I cannot conceive that it would. The only reason I can conceive
that we might perceive it is to Witness it to be able to understand
the other persons actions and reactions. On an individual basis
then, evil would be a entity we have created or one created
by another in our close proximity that mirrors a fear or issue
that lies unresolved Within us. On a community or national basis
this would a fear or issue that the peoples of a particular
community or nation hold that is unresolved. On an international
basis this would be an unresolved issue mankind faces: 9/11
and it's resultant War on Terror and Axis of Evil would therefore
be something like an inability to live in peace as a race. But
in all cases, this "evil" would be a lesson that assists
us in moving forward: how then can this be separate from Creator,
as in the final analysis is assists us on our path? If we perceive
negative energy in our lives, surely this is a sign that we
need to take note of that energy and investigate why it is effecting
us? If we perceive that another is sending us this negative
energy and do not seek to look Within, surely we are missing
an opportunity to heal an aspect of our self/Self that needs
to come to healing and we are doing our Self a disservice?
Jimmy WhiteBear:
The "Great
Void" is the place where everything materializes from.
It is also called the "The Great mystery". It is where
darkness has precedence, The unknown!
Whether or not Creator's
plan was to create "Good and evil" means little. Balance
is the object of our quest in life and in order to find balance
we must confront the darkness within. I have met "Evil"
and whether or not it was a choice or a victim of upbringing,
Evil is real, we have a choice where some others don't. They
don't have choice for whatever the reason. We can choose to
do evil things or choose to do right, do good, to be at our
spiritual best!
Evil can be a Mask
of Fear, anger, hurt and so on. Some choose to deal with this
definitely, some are unable to choose the way they deal with
it for whatever the reason, be it Spirit or environment.
Wynsong:
"It's
the devil in disguise
Oh yes it is,
The Devil in Disguise."
Sorry I was listening to an Elvis hour special...so that song
flew into my mind when I read your title. If God lives within
us...God being a human construct around a force of being that
we don't understand fully and have capsulized down to whatever
form and label the individual uses...(I was brought up calling
it God)
Then is follows
that the Devil will also live within us...(and for me will still
be a human construct to encapsulate a force that we don't fully
understand, or want to)... So I can live with your description
of how fear and evil are dancing a co-creative dance within
individuals and within communities. Fear also lives in other
beings... Animals display fear, and while it may result in a
display of aggressive behavior, it rarely would be typified
as evil by us. Yet primates can organize to commit atrocities
on each other, and on other species...and I might look at those
acts of genocide as 'evil'. (Interestingly enough I read about
that first in a book called The Lucifer Principle ). I'm inclined
to not believe in evil as a force, but as a definition we attach,
often after the fact, to behaviors that were generated by fear,
greed, hubris, ...so as I type this, I would say those behaviors
are caused by shadow issues that aren't dealt with...either
by an individual or by a society/community.
Having said
that, I don't limit Shadow to 'negative' behavioral forces...for
me, Shadow is all that moves through us, and moves us from a
place of unconsciousness... Some people use Light Shadow vs
Dark Shadow to delineate the difference between behaviors they
see as Good, Desirable, and Creative vs those they see as Destructive,
Bad, and Evil...I don't...
Issues that
drive a person’s behavior are shadow, regardless of what
kind of behavior they produce in the Light (where we can all
see it). So if a person is driven to be Nice to their own detriment...people
seeing the behavior might call that person's service as Good,
they may get the good version of Martyr attached to their name...yet
the behavior can be as destructive, especially to the person
who can't bring their need to be Nice to the light of consciousness...and
to those closest to them. The scope of destruction may not be
as wide as those whose Shadow issues and charismatic abilities
combine and can inspire a nation or a movement, the likes of
Hitler. This is one of the reasons I like the election of Obama.
In this decision, by a country, they have chosen a person to
lead that seems to me to be operating more consciously than
the other choices...(which is a big switch for someone who was
a Hilary supporter). I see Obama as potentially the symbolic
Healed Masculine. We have the choice of moving forward on a
new map of union between the Masculine and Feminine in Consciousness,
that has never before been available...
During Hitler's
time, we got Churchill (thank Goodness), but Churchill was not
a healed masculine...he was a wonderful example of the Wounded
Masculine, as were most of the leaders of that time... and while
he won the war, the wounded masculine decisions he and his co-leaders
made at that time have created many of the 'evils' we are now
dealing with, and have dealt with for the last 60 years. I don't
know if as a species we will ever actually step out of the vibrational
space in which we have been living for so long, and ascend (as
some people call it)...like the Mayan's were supposed to have
done...I do think that more and more people are living with
more consciousness, so their shadows issues are not driving
their behaviour (collective and individual) in the same way
as they would have in the past.
WWI and WWII
were driven by economic forces as strongly as they were driven
by any other forces (as I understand it, and that is minimally)...so
we sit again at the brink of potential . . . We get to choose
how we move forward...with a new vision, or a repeat of the
old stories... This is the story of Parisfal again...will we
leave the Castle of the Fisher King, not having asked the question...and
go out in our Shiny Armor, doing 'Good' for another 40 years,
before we get a chance to ask the question again? My own thoughts
are we need to each make the choice for our self. . . and not
be waiting on a 'leader' to come an lead us to the promised
land. My thoughts...
Jimmy WhiteBear:
I think
that evil is an entity that is forever biting at our backs,
Our choice is to either accept the evil for what it is or reject
the evil and grasp the positive aspects that will lead us forward
in personal growth. Evil spirits take over our bodies and cuz'
us to do things we would not normally do. It is EGO, Fear, attempt
to dominate others and inflict ones will upon them. Control
of others using anger, rage and fear.
Evil possession changes
our personality and forces us to act in a way we normally would
not. To do battle with the evil forces in the spirit world requires
great courage and fortitude, integrity, Love in the purest of
form. Something we call "Unconditional Love". This
is a force that evil is incapable of fighting because evil knows
nothing of "unconditional love" If it did, it could
no longer be evil. If one has never experienced Evil and Unconditional
love, Evil will use every trick it knows to break it down, Evil
can be defeated by unconditional love. Spirit guides and the
animal spirits continually force evil back into its dark realm
where although it may surface again to create havoc, It will
never have the same strength it has when it first met with Spiritual
goodness. I met someone once that pretended to be a very spiritual
person but as time moved on, her color showed itself and she
did everything she could to split and divide goodness. Although
she was successful in her attempts, the one thing she couldn't
succeed in was causing fear. She brought out much anger that
still today is a battle. Rage, rages on and slowly diminishes,
This made Evil more impotent then even she realizes. Tho' there
were many that listened to evil in the name of spirit, I truly
believe that at some point they will see it for what it is.
Cowardly Fear!
Paah Wenchokws:
From
my perspective "evil" does not exist unless we humans
create it. It is a mask that we put on.
Wynsong:
Your
memory of Alberto's story is good. I believe people's intent
creates problems for other people all the time. One can call
it sorcery because they are imposing their intent on another
without the other's permission. Is that evil or is that ignorance,
and if it is ignorance and the ignorance is big enough, so that
the intent is forced on a large group of people (like slavery
for example) is that more evil than when someone just overwhelms
one other person's ability to create their own destiny? I still
think evil is more a definition we apply when we create stories
around what we perceive to have happened, AND I believe that
people consistently and mostly through ignorance of the process
mess in other people's ability to create their own reality (do
sorcery). If I really want a specific future to happen, and
I put intent behind it, and dream it, and pray for it....and
it isn't about me living on a deserted island, then by definition,
I am dreaming a future that will touch others. If they have
complete free will to choose to touch my dream or walk away,
and they know that, and can exercise it, then all is good. .
. but how many do?
Can my children
resist consciously and with love, my dreams for them (I hope
so, but in case they can't, I try hard to avoid dreaming for
them)? Is it an evil, when I dream for them?, or when a parent
dreams for their child...or a child dreams for a parent...etc.,
etc., etc.... To me, this is the crux of impeccability. ...
Sorcery happens around us and to us all the time...by my definition,
which was shaped and formed by Alberto Villoldo's work...It
is the basis of how humans interact with each other at the energetic
...Redfield also touched on it in The Celestine Prophecy...that
we are constantly exchanging energy, and the how of that exchange
would also be the how of the definition of sorcery and evil...
If energy is taken, shaped, controlled by another without it
being freely given and exchanged in ayni (right balance/reciprocity),
then I guess we need a word for that unequal, unbalanced exchange...and
we could call it evil or sorcery, OR we could call it nature,
as in human nature. If some are able to do it, and do, is it
different from the big cat having claws and speed and stealth
and taking out an antelope?
I sit with
these kinds of questions all the time... As humans we have the
ability to think, just another skill set by my reckoning, nothing
that makes us special...and we use it to create and to destroy...same
as every other species uses their skill sets.
Some believe
we are moving into a time of great enlightenment, a dividing
of the ways...some will live and be in harmony with all, the
rest will die/shift to a new dimension/whatever ...Armageddon,
by some definitions...some see this as a time of urgency to
up their vibrational levels so that they'll be with the chosen...And
they are dreaming a future that is full of that reality...and
they see it as LIGHT...Good...the Coming of a New Dawn.... Yet
it could be argued quite effectively as evil...as the THEM that
aren't able to, or willing to up their vibrational field will
be, in their scenario, no longer able to live as they have in
the past. No longer able to live what they would dream for themselves.
Who is doing the dreaming here?...Whose intent is the stronger?
For me, this is the essence behind what I say first at my classes
on Energetic Self Defense. . . I'd rather sit beside someone
I knew was capable of sorcery and knew it, that someone who
thinks of
them self
as a one way transmitter of Goodness and light. ...We are all
capable of sorcery, and thinking we are not, is far more dangerous
that knowing we can, in my mind. The knowing gives us the opportunity
to act from IMPECCABILITY...which isn't to say doing what is
consensually accepted as good...just from a place of pure intent,
with knowledge of its ramifications...Like the cat who takes
down an antelope. I don't know how many of you have read Twilight...or
the other books in the series, but in the end that is what the
author is writing about...Vampires who make a choice to not
feed on humans, vampires who choose to follow their instincts...not
right or wrong, just choices...and how balance has to be maintained
or the imbalances bring havoc. It is an interesting fictional
(maybe) story about something that is commonly considered to
be 'evil' seen through a new understanding.
DragonHawk:
I had read your earlier post, but to be honest the examples
you gave, spoke more to me of situations were attitudes/emotions
such as fear had been so utterly boxed that they were completely
denied or externalized. In my journey over the last few years
I tried so hard to find my feminine that I denied my masculine.
As I looked back over the last week, I realized that all the
little niggles I have come across in that time were all my masculine
saying "look I'm still here and I can cause you problems
if you deny me": the more I tried to subdue my masculine
the more it came to the fore: and came to the fore in ways it
appeared I had little control over. I can't count the number
of times I've said something in the last few years and afterwards
wondered "where did that come from?"?
The one thing that I did consider
could be possible was the experiment thing: but then it came
to me that if I was in a room with whole heap of strangers doing
an experiment of any kind, that situation would cause me a little
stress, which would explain the drop in immune system response
in the experiment. Having said that, my belief is that, all
semantic arguments aside, describing what Joe Public would understand
by the term evil, evil is thought and thoughts are the stuff
of life, and can be sent out: so I wouldn't disagree with the
results of the experiment.
My basic premise would be that evil
is a thought and that we can project our thoughts, so yeh we
can project evil. You and I have both been involved in a situation
elsewhere where a mutual acquaintance has come across someone
with a potentially dark mind who has spread that darkness to
the point where you and I and quite a few others are now aware
of that darkness and potentially feeding it. If that situation
had not arisen, you and I could have used the time we put into
that situation, however brief, in other ways: the friend of
our mutual acquaintance had got a whole group of people putting
time and energy into their situation, which they would not have
done had they not created the situation. At a very base level,
in the original classical sense of the word, anything that distracts
us from the contemplation of the Divine, was considered "evil".
Demons, Genes etc., etc., were, at that time, all positive "intermediary"
aspects of creation, rather akin to "saints" or "angels"
in modern mythos. It was not until St Augustine's theory of
original sin in the 400's AD that things started to change and
the notion of evil came to mean something outside of the Light
and separate from the individual. The Devil card in the Tarot
illustrates the original intent of what Joe Public might call
evil today.
The original archetype, the Devil's
purpose was to entice spiritual matter into physical form to
complete the Creation. As I explained elsewhere about seeding:
as the Creation descended, and just as heavier elements decay
to become lighter elements, at each stage of Creation the impetus
to Create must be passed down. In esoteric Judeo-Christian mythos
when first consciousness was achieved it still recognized unconsciousness
and wanted to return to that state, so needed "distractions"
to make it want to descend further into manifestation. The Devil
provided those destructions.
"Contemplation of the Divine"
does not have to mean spiritual practice, it can mean any Will-Full
productive activity that moves us forward in learning or manifestation
in the mundane. It does of course refer to spiritual practice,
and in that respect the Devil's purpose is to distract us into
remaining in the mundane world: to test if our Will is strong
enough to carry on the Journey back to Wholeness.
“Your question is very limiting,
DH. You have aimed at a very narrow target group”
Yes, It was aimed at people who do
believe, all semantics apart, that evil (in Joe Public's understanding
of that term) is a force in itself, and separate from an individual’s
mind.
“Although I believe in evil
I don't fit your criteria,”
So you don't believe evil is force
unto itself separate from an individual’s mind?
“I must say though that I don't
see how anyone can answer "what purpose a notion holds"
since it's like an atheist asking a believer what purpose God
holds. There'll never be an answer that satisfies both sides.”
I have explained the purpose the
notion of evil holds to me and I wanted to ask what it holds
to the "target" group I defined . If you believe in
something, then there must be basis for taht belief. Whether
someone else accepts that basis is immaterial: it's the believer's
basis I am interested in.. I know some very logical folks who
believe in evil as a force in its own right, and have a totally
illogical fear response to the notion of evil, believing they
are being attacked by "evil" but who have no basis
for that belief that they can elucidate When I was a kid, my
mum used to run around the house with holy water when it thundered
and lightened: growing up in rural Ireland in the 1940's, all
sorts of superstitions pervaded her conditioning creating all
sorts of fears, that, as young boy she passed on to me. I was
terrified of thunder and lightning well into my teenage years,
until I learnt in science class that it wasn't God's anger.
“will their reality not work
because your reality does not accept evil or will your two realities
clash or...? “
It depends on the strength of convictions
of the parties. It would not work if the person who was to be
the target of such intent had a strong enough belief that evil
could not be sent out, and visa versa if the person sending
the intent was stronger.
But again here, we are talking here
about evil being sent by a person: a thought form: not evil
as a separate force that randomly attaches to someone.
But I'm not one who thinks that we've
reached such a god-like state just yet.
I think we have, and we always have
had that state, it's just our conception of what that state
is skewed by the false doctrines of religion, making that state
out to something far more fantastical than it actually is! If
we had not, the UK would be a dense forest and you and I would
be living somewhere in Continental Europe still wandering around
in loincloths and animal skins, hunting boar and gathering berries.
I think we are still dabbling on
the very edge of manifesting. In other words - the day I walk
on water is the day I'll believe my reality really is MY reality.
;)
and the walking on water thing is
a very good example of the false doctrines of religion! What
Jesus more likely did was overcome emotions than physically
walk on water: that's assuming of course that a man named Jesus
actually lived 2000 years ago or so.
but I will say that I do know that
belief in something isn't relevant to its existence.
in your reality....that may not be
the case in mine or another person's reality
I've got a copy of Shaman Healer
Sage, though it's a long time since I read it, so I can't remember
whether I thought it was good bad or indifferent, but your example
is a very good one in terms of my idea of how evil is transferred:
doubt regarding conviction is created in one person by someone
with stronger conviction (the Shaman). Whilst Villoldo is churning
over the Shaman's words and not being strong enough in his own
convictions: his mind is distracted from more fruitful endeavors
based on his own will (rather than the will of the Shaman and
he becomes ill). You could say that fruitful use of our own
will invokes Divine Will to assist us in our endeavors and strengthen
our convictions. Lack of our own will means there is no Divine
Will and we are susceptible to the will of others but I am sure
that thinking something can't harm me isn't enough whereas being
aware of potential harmful things usually makes creatures survive
longer.
As with anything else, there is a
balance to be achieved: to be aware of something is one thing,
but succumb another: and the strength of our convictions seems
to be key: it's back to the age of masculine/feminine it seems
to me: the feminine receptiveness perceived the danger and the
masculine will either succumbs or rises above it
Wynsong:
“As
I looked back over the last week, I realized that all the little
niggles I have come across in that time were all my masculine
saying "look I'm still here and I can cause you problems
if you deny me": the more I tried to subdue my masculine
the more it came to the fore: and came to the
fore in ways
it appeared I had little control over. I can't count the number
of times I've said something in the last few years and afterwards
wondered "where did that come from?"?
I would call
this self-sorcery, Self-evil, Shadow, any other term that one
might use...to deny some part of yourself, to deny its right
to live and create and destroy is to not act from IMPECCABILITY,
by my definition of the word. To not be impeccable with your
Self, and to treat your Self with compassion....All of you,
even the parts you do not approve of. But that is my journey,
so take it for how and whether it resonates with you...or toss
it, as you will. Alberto had decided he had won the bet with
the shaman, because he did not get sick when he first arrived
home (the shaman explained later that he had become distracted
and was unable to do it at the time that was prearranged). It
was some days after he had forgotten about it, that he became
ill (when the shaman, on shaman time, got around to it)...and
the illness stopped the moment the sorcery stopped (although
the physical ramifications of the illness took longer to recover
from, as the body needed to rehydrate and re-balance in terms
of electrolytes)...just for those who want to know the story.
And it is story. Alberto's story, that he uses to teach, and
to illustrate his journey, a journey from a western need for
the known and the unknown (academia in his case) to the shamanic
place of living well within the unknowable. Now I have a question,
about evil as an outside force for you Dragonhawk... Do you
believe that other levels of vibrational energy exist, that
resonate at vibrational levels that are higher than humans,
making them undetectable to our senses? And if you believe that
such entities exist, that some may feed on the energy of humans?
And if you believe that that is true, could it not be the place
that people you refer to as "Joe Public" (is this
the same kind of guy as "Joe the Plumber" from the
American election), might have come up with the concept of evil?
DragonHawk:
Wynsong, I'm rushing through,
so I will come back to your first post...But re the last point
of the second post: “Do you believe that other levels of
vibrational energy exist, that resonate at vibrational levels
that are higher than humans, making them undetectable to our
senses? “
Yes, but at this point in time I
believe that such entities are part of us: and that they reside
"within". As I've said above: hydrogen created helium
and so forth down the periodic table of the
elements until we get to Lawrencium
(and probably heavier elements we are not aware of) and our
souls, as part of the Creation, have been at every stage of
that creation and decay back to helium process, and so everything
that is now, has been, and shall be is within our soul's memory:
including anything we perceive as higher or lower energy.
“And if you believe that such
entities exist, that some may feed on the energy of humans?”
Yes, but only from the perspective
that I described in reply or as you point out, in respect of
how we thwart ourselves.
“And if you believe that that
is true, could it not be the place that people you refer to
as "Joe Public" (is this the same kind of guy as "Joe
the Plumber" from the American election), might have come
up with the concept of evil?”
Yeh, I think Joe Public, and Joe
the Plumber are one and the same: you're average guy on the
street I'm not entirely sure what you asking here Wynsong: whether
you are asking if evil does exists, Joe Public perceives it
as a higher vibrational energy or this is where Joe Public has
placed evil ie in the former, evil exists separate from man,
or in the latter you agree with me that evil is an aspect of
man? Either way my answer would really be the same: western
culture (and a lot of eastern too) sprung from similar pagan
beliefs that influenced the Judeo-Christian beliefs which inform
all modern law and societal norms in the west and things have
been this way since the 600's at least. As I said above in reply
to Crow, it is from that culture that we get notions of evil
as a potentially harmful force separate from the Light: and
in my opinion, the interpretation of evil as separate from Light
is a misconception, whether deliberate or otherwise. If you
look at the NA notion of Heyoka: an archetype that basically
behaves badly to show us how to do things right, we find the
original interpretation of the Devil: an aspect of the Light.
I am not sure if the religions thread I did a few years back
is in the library or not, but from that research I did at that
time, I didn't find a notion of a force separate from the Light:
except in Judeo-Christian culture, it's derivatives or cultures
it influenced.
Wynsong:
My
questions were an attempt to answer yours Dragonhawk.
“But
I wanted to ask those who do believe in Evil as a force separate
from our own individual mind, that can be sent out to harm others,
what purpose such a notion holds and how they square their belief
in such an evil with the individuals ability to choose their
own reality?”
I gather from
this question and your other posts that you do not believe in
evil as a separate entity from humans, and that you are trying
to understand how someone later identified as Joe Public
“Yes,
It was aimed at people who do believe, all semantics apart,
that evil (in Joe Public's understanding of that term) is a
force in itself, and separate from an individual’s mind.”
My questions were leading to a judgment that energetic entities
that vibrate at levels other than our own (that not everyone
can perceive, but some can), that feed off humans, might be
seen as evil (spirits), and that that might have perpetrated
the idea. To accept that that might be true, you would need
to accept that other vibrational energetic beings exist. You
do believe they exist, but you see them as part of us, therefore
not separate, ...but not everyone does see them as part of us...and
to those that don't see them as part of us, could see them as
separate...and they could also see them as evil and add one
to one and come up with a separate evil principal at work in
the universe... especially if they see them as taking advantage
or harming people, not acting from a real need, but as a malicious
force. I do see energies entities as separate from the energy
that is me, despite my belief that in the end/beginning and
in the totality of being, we are all part of the original creation,
but I do not see the energies that are separate from me as evil
or a separate principal of evil. Some may do me harm, but that
does not necessarily equal evil.
DragonHawk:
Jimmy, thanks for your
posts, you gave me a new perspective on this... Balance is the
object of our quest in life and in order to find balance we
must confront the darkness within. I have met "Evil"
and whether or not it was a choice or a victim of upbringing,
Evil is real, From the first sentence here, when you say you
have met evil, you are speaking of something within ie evil
as an expression of something you had created (perhaps in imagination?)
as a tool to come to healing?
Evil can be a Mask of Fear, anger,
hurt and so on. Some choose to deal with this differently, some
are unable to choose the way they deal with it for whatever
the reason, be it Spirit or environment. I don't doubt that
evil exists: but as I grew in my ability to accept the lessons
that life threw at me, I learnt, that as you say here:
“We can choose to do evil things
or choose to do right.”
To me it feels like once we accept
that we have that choice we agree to lessons in how to deal
with whatever emotions/attributes lie beneath the "evil".
I can see now that I decided not to allow me fear of scarcity
to bring forward scarcity when I decided to go work in the UAE:
I fought the "evil", but my conviction was tested
at a much deeper level our in the UAE: perhaps because I knew
in my heart of hearts I did not want to be there, and if we
cannot bring heart to the battle our chances of success are
severely hampered. Perhaps the battle was to be fought in the
UK, not the UAE.
“Our choice is to either accept
the evil for what it is or reject the evil and grasp the positive
aspects that will lead us forward in personal growth”
Would you agree Jimmy that it is
through acknowledging the evil, accepting that the evil, lies
within, that we can see the positive aspects that lead to personal
growth: the purpose of the
lessons that are sent that allow
us to transmute that evil? In seeing the lessons for what they
are, and the potential for evil within, we can strengthen the
conviction of our choices for good?
“To do battle with the evil
forces in the spirit world requires great courage and fortitude,
integrity, Love in the purest of form. Something we call "Unconditional
Love".”
Now I am little confused as to what
you believe evil is: an internal or external force? But from
you description here, and my experiences, I would say that evil
comes forward when our sense of self love is weak, so that we
have to dig really deep to find an expression of that Love:
which I would guess we find through submission to the Divine:
Self Love. This is a force that evil is un-capable of fighting
because evil knows nothing of "unconditional love"
If it did, it could no longer be evil. Which would be how the
evil is transmuted: once we give ourselves "unconditional
love" or are prepared to accept unconditional Love, we
return to our normal state or perhaps, as a result of that willingness
to give/receive that Love, we move up a stage on our Journey,
given that unconditional Love is the gift of the Divine….
If one has never experienced Evil and Unconditional love, Evil
will use every trick it knows to break it down, Evil can be
defeated by unconditional love. : In which case, lack of Love
allows evil to come forward?”
“Spirit guides and the animal
spirits continually force evil back into its dark realm”
I've been with you up to here, but
surely evil is better out and exposed to the Light? Unless you
mean that our guides and helpers only bring forward that propensity
to evil that we can each handle at any one time, according to
our learning: back to the " we are never sent more than
we can handle" theory?
“she did everything she could
to split and divide goodness…”
You've just shown me the purpose
of quite a few people who have been in my life the last few
years: the roles people have played. But this also shows me
how there is a propensity to evil in everyone: the extent to
which it shows itself in the outer world would be dependent
on their ability to see it and transmute it by Love when it
arises within.
“This made Evil more impotent
then even she realizes”
Do you mean the anger and rage or
the lack of fear: or all three? My feeling would be the lack
of fear, in which case fear would be the visible outward accomplice
of an underlying lack of Unconditional Love: although as Crow
has said previously, a little bit of fear is healthy for our
physical survival and a little bit of anger can move us to action…
Thanks for your posts, Jimmy
Whilst I was in the UAE, I became
very aware of the Tarot and how the Major Arcana relates as
they relate to the paths of the Tree of Life of the Qabalah.
I've tried to get to grips with these paths before but have
never quite "nailed" them. Through my experiences
in the UAE, I learnt to see how the paths progress and have
been tracking my Journey back through the Tree...
In doing so I came to see how the
different paths combine to form a Journey. As I looked out into
the world, I could see how different people in my life were
walking their Journys: the paths
that were treading, almost as if
they were offering visions of how the different paths could
be walked and the outcomes of walking the paths differently.
I have been using a Qabalah website http://www.hermeticgolden...ocuments/Essays/tarot.htm
to gain understanding of the some of the astrological, numerological
and other periphery aspects of the Tarot to augment my previous
learning and found this under the Devil card:
Behind the image of the Devil (NChSh
(in Hebrew) =358 (the numerological association of NChSh in
Hebrew Gematria)) is Messiah (MShYCh = 358) who delivers.
Italics added by me for explanation,
bold added to emphasize the original quotation. The Devil card
is numbered 15 in the Tarot, , which is 6 numerologically (1+5),
the number of the days of Creation in the Bible: implying that
Creator is behind all, even the Devil: the force supposedly
opposite to God and the source of evil in the Bible, who tempts
the Christ. I also found this from the same text: The forces
personified by the Devil are very real, for they are man's own
creations and will disintegrate only when thought and belief
are withdrawn from them which seems to tie in with my feeling,
but also with Jimmy's comment that these forces are very real:
but I still can't help feeling that. they would only be "very
real" to the person who perceives them.
Paah Wenchokws:
It
seems man has been pre-occupied with evil. I like what everyone
has written. But it still comes down to that if there is such
a thing as evil then it needs someone who is not aware-who is
asleep. Evil needs an actor so-to-speak to give action and so
does the devil. If you take the word evil and reverse the letters
it is "live" which is a current state. If you take
the word devil and reverse the letters it is "lived"
which is past state. Either way these two words need an actor
to become an action. Both need to have the thought to become.
Another thought is that there are negative energies/spirits
and that man has put a name or label on them. But to me, this
does not mean they are evil. Just some random thoughts here.
DragonHawk:
Wynsong, Thanks for your
replies! They have been very thought provoking! I will reply,
and almost have responses down, but I have had to do a lot of
thining! I need to edit as, I'm sure you know, I'm not known
for having Brevity 101 as a talent, so they are too long to
post right now! You said: “because I'm not feeling that
you're taking my experiences as being of equal value to your
own and, regardless of whether that is my misconception, perception
or fact, it is undermining my ability to remain objective.”
You and I have a different viewpoint
on this subject and in many respects I would prefer to share
your viewpoint as it would take a lot of pressure off me to
search within for sources of "disquiet" that
come into my life LOL. In many respects that is the purpose
of this thread: to try and test my own theories. We've talked
before about how elemental differences can give us different
perspectives. Being an air sign, I like to have a "logical"
explanation. I find that logical expression in pretty much everything
I come across in life, Either by experience or learning I have
debunked a lot of things that seemed illogical to me as my path
has progressed...so I cannot understand why I do not find it
on this subject.. I had a physical teacher a few years ago,
who firmly believed that everything bad that happened in her
life was an expression of an "evil" sent by someone
else: i.e. she had no responsibility in such matters, yet, even
to my then (15 years ago) novice eyes, in some cases it was
obvious that her earlier actions were the cause of this "evil"
coming into her life. Other people were bad but she was always
good. In the Qabalah/Tarot I recently found a logical explanation
of "evil". At the same time there were threads on
another board we both visit about evil being "sent"
so I wanted to bring this to a wider audience to test my own
theories. Jimmy's and Wynsong's posts have given me a lot to
think about. I answered your posts first as I understood your
underlying perspective better and perhaps I rushed them a little,
but there was no intent to not value your experiences. I apologies
if I did and I understand if you do not want to participate
further in this thread. As a PS: on reflection I think you are
probably right about the term "evil": I think that
is a hangover from Augustine's misinterpretation of the Adam
and Eve story: but that discussion seemed to take us into a
different (or later part of the) discussion and I wanted to
try and get a handle on the "everyday" understanding
of the term "evil" and how it arose first. I'm not
sure I would place it in quite the random terms you did at one
point, as to me, if evil was not a product of man's mind, there
would have to be some attractive force for it to attach to taht
was at least similar to itself or a pre-curser to it arising.
as otherwise the notion of cause and effect would be severed
and I cannot help think that applies here somehow.
DragonHawk:
Thanks for your reply.
I am rushing through again, but I did want to acknowledge your
reply and say yes, you have hit on some truths, but perhaps
not in the way you think you have. Feeling "safe"
does come into this, but not in respect of why I need logical
explanations, in fact it is the opposite: the "safety"
came first, the logical explanations a consequence that actually
created problems, but something I needed to do to retain balance.
I realized once you mentioned safety that the "logical"
is a balancing that has been going on whilst I explored worlds
that were totally illogical to me. In those worlds I felt totally
safe and if I did come across anything that alarmed me, I soon
realized that this was I had never realized before that in the
reading etc., I was trying to bring that sense of "safety"
out into the (logical) world (as in the mundane) in a manner
that, not only my own mind, but the minds of others, could understand
so that I could test what I had understood by the inner world
Journeys without giving the detail of those Journeys.
Where I experienced problems was
in the opposition I encountered from people in the mundane who
labelled me "all in my head", and dismissed anything
I said. I accepted this as part of the Journey, but I realize
now that I needed that logical expression, not only to bring
them into mind, but to create a balance of East and West. Those
who dismissed me hadn't seen the inner parts of my Journey,
because I hadn’t shared those inner Journeys as I had been
told not to: Your mentioning of the word "safety"
brought that aspect of my path into focus: traditionally we
are told not tell all to "protect" ourselves in those
other worlds. I hadn't thought that the fact I hadn't shared
the inner parts of those Journeys might be why I was labelled
"all in my head", and why my opinion was so often
discounted, as it was in the thread elsewhere about the entity
that came to Crabby and yourself.
This is one of the reasons I came
back to SL as I knew Cinn would understand and I would be able
to discuss these matters with someone who had experienced them
without having to explain the whole Journey. Where this post
does fit into this thread, is that I rarely came across anything
that alarmed me, and if I did I simply came back to the Now
and replayed the action and usually found them to be an effect
of an earlier action (cause) that explained the occurrences.
Sometimes the action was a person I knew in the mundane and
sometimes an archetype that referred back to a person or an
experience. I have come across more such problems with situations
in the mundane which is why I have come to believe that "evil"
in the Joe Public sense of the word is a creation of mind. To
explain more of my Journey here would go too far off topic,
but somehow, and I am not quite sure how yet how, but the two
worlds seemed to transpose themselves out in the UAE: things
that I had taken for granted as being "safe" became
a major problem and things I had struggled with and was "scared"
of, became easy. One thing the UAE Journey did bring forward
was a very clear understanding of how seemingly opposing forces
balance themselves and how, at a deeper level, those forces
are not in opposition, but assisting the Whole.Because,
in my experience, there are huge miracles in not knowing and
yet still growing in understanding. Some call it faith, others
trust... maybe even manifesting. The point is I feel you don't
have to know how a car is designed and created in order to drive
one whereas you want to take it apart and meet the original
designer before you can accept that it is a vehicle of transport.
I understand what you mean: but to
me it feels more like I have met the designer, helped him design
it "somewhere else" but I then have to explain it
to someone here who wasn't there, to be able to remember the
process so that I can build the car and drive it. To me it is
not a deconstructing process but a reconstructing process. Given
that were are being honest with each other: I have to say that
you have been one of the people who I have felt have been dismissive
of my Journey over the last twelve months, certainly of my online
friends.
I only ever have problems with people
trying to push their view as "The Only View".
I looked back over this thread, and
yes, in one of my replies to you I didn't use words like "I
feel" or similar words that I normally use that give rise
to the notion that this was an opinion, not something I was
putting forward as something I believed was fact and I have
given the reason and apologized for that. But there have been
situations where you have come across as if you believed yours
was the only view, sometimes in a very domineering fashion.
There are instances in this thread, in the post that starts
with your quoting a point I made about denial, were you have
discarded what I said to you and gone on to reply regardless
of my reply to you. In the first quote, it was me who mentioned
denial, not you, and in the second quote in that post, you replied
with a point about the experiment in question, when I gave a
general point about an experiment situations. In one post, I
asked a specific question to understand a particular point of
view, and you replied questioning my question, admitting that
your opinion did not fit the question, but giving your viewpoint
anyway. It's an open board and anyone has a right to reply however
they see fit: but to state that your only have a problem with
people trying to push their view as the only view after having
dismissed my replies to you and to comment that a question I
asked was wrong, could imply that you believe yours is "the
only view" that matters. It's not your normal way of doing
things, but I think we can all act in a manner we wouldn't normally
at times. I have found that things I dislike in others are a
sign I need to look at that aspect within myself.
Do I think humans create their own
monsters in the dark? Yes, but I also believe I can send out
my monsters as well as my love. Logic tells me that if I can
create GOOD I can create HARM as well. I don't consider this
evil - I consider this natural cause and effect.
I don't disagree that our monsters
can be sent out: it's how they attach at the other end that
I am seeking to understand other's opinion on.
Wynsong:
It's how they
attach at the other end that I am seeking to understand other's
opinion on. It is my opinion, that for something to be able
to attach at the other end, there must be an affinity for it.
So in the Arthur legend...he was not hurt by much in the way
of dark magic (although I'm sure some was sent his way, even
though the stories don't talk about it much-Merlin's teachings
of the shamanic
journey did their job), but he was defeated by his own son,
by his own unknowing errors, by his own shadow. This works for
the small sorcery that happens every day... I'll use me as an
example, because that is easiest... If someone says to me, you
have the fattest butt they've ever seen... there will be no
damage, because it simply isn't my truth in either my conscious
or my unconscious mind, so they will not undermine my energy
in that way.... I'm not lazy, despite my very disastrous housekeeping...so
that won't work either... But tell me I'm unlovable...or hit
on the places I am not sure about around my parenting, and I'm
all over that stuff...Might just as well put up a big bullseye.
It wouldn't take a talented sorcerer to find those affinities.
Given that I've done a lot of work on my affinities, conscious
and unconscious/shadow and I've healed a lot of the standard
affinities that the 'man on the street' has....then it would
take a more talented sorcerer to find my affinities and exploit
them. This is actually what I teach at my energy self- defense
courses...Ways to strengthen your shields etc are only as good
as how well you have lived your own shadow and made peace with
it. And of course I could be so very wrong...but it is how I'm
walking this journey.
EagleSinging:
I am late coming to this
conversation, but I've been following it. I actually hold a
similar opinion that Wynsong expressed. For any evil or mal
intent to impact another, it must be received by the other person
(receiver). There must be a place or manner in which is can
attach to the receiver. If it cannot attach, if it cannot be
received consciously or unconsciously, then there is no impact
on the receiver. That is my opinion - it is based on my personal
experience and what I've learned through reading and exploring.
I am not sure if I answered your question DH, but that is how
I understood it. This question is an interesting exploration.
DragonHawk:
It wasn't a problem for
me, but you did ask on another board for it to be pointed out
to you if you ever did that.
Wynsong, Your last post very much
agrees with my feeling on this (as have much in the other posts
I have yet to reply to!): there would have to be a weakness
for the energy to take hold
I was thinking about this this evening
actually and as you say here: “Given that I've done a lot
of work on my affinities, conscious and unconscious/shadow and
I've healed a lot of the standard affinities that the 'man on
the street' has....then it would take a more talented sorcerer
to find my affinities and exploit them. “
..I doubt I'm as far along the affinities
Journey as you are but I've noticed that the further I go along
my path the more confident I feel in my ability to walk that
path without fear of "evil". Raven took my down some
very foreboding paths when he first started working with me:
once I began to trust him, my fear of the paths subsided and
I never once felt anything untoward even on some of the more
difficult paths. Dragon does not feel half as threatening I
might add! What Jimmy said about unconditional Love feels right,
and particularly for me, the unconditional Love we give to ourselves.
I think cultivating Joy helps too (but that is only a very recent
observation as I've assimilated my UAE Journey!). Maybe the
more we own our own Power, i.e. the more self-aware we are,
the more difficult it becomes for other's attempts to harm us
to hit the mark and affect us? This might explain the point
Crow made about differing realities and whether we believe in
evil or not: someone who has done the internal work will still
perceive the "evil" but will not be threatened by
it/be able to deflect it, which, to me would be different than
someone who does not believe in evil as their weaknesses would
be wide open. This would also explain why I used to believe
folks could harm me and I feel that less now.
Once, again, Thanks! for your post
Wynsong.
ES, Thanks for your post! As you
say, I think that is pretty much what Wynsong said, but your
terminology sparked my interest as it is terminology I use!
I have realized from Crow's post about safety, as I said in
regard to Raven, that in the "inner" unconscious worlds
I feel little fear: it was the conscious outer worlds that I
felt fear. Crow made me realize, which I had never considered
before (but then I realized that I always have to explain things
to someone else for the lightbulb to come on ) that I was building
my conscious world to replicate my unconscious inner worlds
i.e. the inner worlds became stronger first, and the outer world
followed To me this seems to confirm that, essentially, "evil"
is of the conscious mind, as I originally suspected.
Wynsong:
Dragonhawk,
I'm glad that you are happy with the discussion. I only want
to clear up one misconception I left you with... The "Given",
was an hypothetical...not a statement of my acumen or clarity.
"Given that I had done my work, then..." I've lots
left to do, and my affinities are not that hard to find for
those who are not necessarily that talented, but have just known
me for a while, are strong willed, and that I care about. I'm
working on Joy and Limitless Love, so I'm working in the same
direction that Jimmy WhiteBear introduced in his second post.
Be kind to me when you post your responses to me. Chemo brain
is making it hard for me to process long posts. I may need to
do your answers in pieces.
CinnamonMoon:
Hi DragonHawk, I've been
following this thread with interest, and putting my own thoughts
and feelings together so please don't feel I'm telling you how
to think. Just consider that it's more than a fear within you
as you read on, my friend. For what it's worth I think we each
have to find our own definitions and interpretations for 'evil'
just as we seek our own traditions to follow. Energy itself
is a force in the universe and that I see as neutral until we
tap into it (or an entity from another dimension does) and put
intent behind it. That intent can be malicious or benevolent
and evil there (according to the generic description of the
word) would be up to the individual and come from within them
as understanding and/or intent to utilize that force in that
way. However there are forces of destruction over which we have
no control, and dimensional entities that are predatory over
which we have no control, they do not come from within us, they
are external. Our control resides within us with our intent
and will to resist or refuse such forces within our reality.
Entities themselves can be dark
and malicious, parasitic in nature, controlling, or possessive
but I believe to encounter them we haven't elevated our own
spirits and conscious awareness to a level where our energy
is 'higher' on a plane which they don't exist. The darker the
entity the lower their vibratory rate, the brighter the entity
the higher that rate. (And we are entities too.) However I think
there is a difference between a destructive (sometimes seemingly
malicious) force and evil deeds of choice. I think fear rises
from such encounters but do not feel it causes them necessarily.
In the case of someone tapping
into energy with the intent of doing evil to another, the attachment
to the victim could be created through fear…some would
lay a curse on another, or threaten to send harm, or speak words
implying negative forces would be called into play through spell-casting
to bring harm to the individual they wished to feel fearful.
They are thereby opening the individual to the potential acceptance
that it would come and they would be attacked. That's a force
coming from within the sender, not the receiver who would need
to refute it or contend with it whichever the case might be.
There would be an attempt to convince the individual that they
were powerless against it increasing the fear. And whether that
person were aware or not such a force or spell could be cast.
Either way the effect could be harrowing—especially if
the individual being attacked or set upon had no knowledge of
dis-spelling. Wicked ways have always been among us from a single
act to mass atrocities. Can an evil force incarnate? Yes, I
believe that is possible when attaching to an individual or
entity and set into motion by negative intent…or by chance
encounters too. As a force, this 'evil' is hungry for the life
force it cannot produce for itself and feeds off others much
like a vampire would sustain itself; that's why I call it parasitic.
The concept of an 'evil force'
is something that has long been debated, but I do believe in
the collective consciousness it exists as a negative force that
can be tapped. I believe it exists as a force within the universe
itself. The fact that there is a benevolent force in the universe
would indicate that a balancing force of destruction (not necessarily
malevolence though that could be involved) would be present
too. I think we can attract such negative influences if we are
unstable emotionally, mentally, or spiritually. Light and dark
are two sides of the same coin going to extremes between them…two
sides of Creator if you will. And that may explain the avenging
vs.
benevolent sides of what the Bible
depicts God to be like as defined in the Old Testament vs. the
New Testament.
I believe it is our 'choice' as
to which energies we summon into play in our lives, and evil
is definitely a constructed term to address the darker side
of things. Evil, for me, is better attached to Free Will than
it is a force. Destructive fits better to my way of thinking
and holds purpose for the 'undoing' that gives way to the void
in which evolution can then form a new 'doing' whatever that
might be. I feel 'evil' has become a convenient term to describe
its effects as we as individuals perceive them. Is this force
within us, yes in a way, we have good and bad in all of us and
we have the 'choice' as to which we will project in life. Sometimes
we do a little of both, sometimes it's more one than the other.
But it exists outside us too. We find that individuals that
are sociopaths, who have no conscience, no concept of consequence
(even knowing the definition of the word), will continue to
do wicked things to others and summon the negative energies
into play (consciously or not). Are they refusing to look within?
I don't know that I'd call it refusal, they wouldn't see the
need; it simply wouldn't make sense to them to do so. Some individuals
are devoid of conscience and emotion, guilt or shame.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with
the concept that the entities are merely thought-forms. Thought-forms
of such a nature do exist, and as well there are also living
entities in spirit worlds that are dark in nature going beyond
a mere thought-form, my friend. Unless you've encountered one
it might be hard to conceive of that but once you have you won't
forget it. It appears to me that you are confusing evil as a
force and evil entities with intended projections of thought
or thought-forms based on fear. I feel these are very separate
issues.
You stated: "If we perceive
negative energy in our lives, surely this is a sign that we
need to take note of that energy and investigate why it is effecting
us? If we perceive that another is sending us this negative
energy and do not seek to look Within, surely we are missing
an opportunity to heal an aspect of our self/Self that needs
to come to healing and we are doing our Self a disservice?"
I'd have to say yes, if you're just talking about thought-forms
or fetches, fear and illusions leading to behavioral matters.
However what about the forces at play we're not summoning and
attacks on individuals who have no knowledge of what evil means
in regard to an energy or entity? It seems lacking there and
the confusion begins to set in as to what's what between the
acts of individuals and groups or a force in and of itself.
Which is which? As Wynsong implied, it could be sorcery done
to someone if coming from someone's will, and that act could
impact whether the person believes in it or not. Thoughts (focus
and will) are things.
Jimmy stated: "Evil possession
changes our personality and forces us to act in a way we normally
would not. To do battle with the evil forces in the spirit world
requires great courage and fortitude, integrity, Love in the
purest of form. Something we call "Unconditional Love".
This is a force that evil is un-capable of fighting because
evil knows nothing of "unconditional love" If it did,
it could no longer be evil. If one has never experienced Evil
and Unconditional love, Evil will use every trick it knows to
break it down, Evil can be defeated by unconditional love."
And I have to agree with him because of experiences I've had
over the years with just such confrontations. These are entities
trying to take over control of the host or body and mind of
a living spirit. I believe the more we raise our conscious awareness
(and therefore our spiritual energy vibration along with it)
the less apt we are to encounter these entities because they
are on a lower vibratory scale, a more primal nature, and therefore
cannot exist at the higher vibratory rates. The more we choose
to walk a path of higher awareness the less apt we are to associate
with those who maintain more primal natures and come from ego…to
be on that higher road we've had to raise our awareness that
it's there for us to journey along, and we've made some discernments
as to the company we are willing to keep.
mentioned: "I wrote that light
and/or dark aren't evil. That they are merely Yin/Yang - the
balancing. I wrote that I did believe in evil and I saw it as
the "twisting" force - the carnival mirror that warps
and distorts for its own purposes, using light, dark, "good"...
whatever it could to get its own way." I must agree as
she is talking about a force (energy or entity), not human actions
or energy weaving. I agree that 'evil' could be better replaced
with 'destructive' which we can all see is a force at play in
the natural order. Evil is a human concept, energy is neutral,
forces contain energy and are set in motion by intent…ours
or Spirit's or another source of that intent. I also agree with
much of Crow's statement that "The word "evil"
might be man-made,” but the force that caught man's attention
has always been there and no, I don't think it is Chaos - I
don't think it helps us grow. Chaos does help us grow and can
use this energy we call evil to our growth advantage, but the
thing we call "evil" isn't interested in our growth
or even in us. It just is and sometimes it comes into contact
with us and sees opportunities. I don't think evil is a good
word for it at all, but I can't think of any that fits what
I'm trying to say. Yes, it uses human fear, but no, we don't
create it. We create our own fear and sometimes this energy
will latch onto that and use it, but it doesn't come from us.
My experiences of coming into contact with it is that it felt
beyond us - very impersonal, totally lacking emotion. And yes,
there are entities that exist in this state of being as well
as entities that have been sucked in to help feed it. I suspect
what we once called "demons" could be more victims
trapped and used by this hungry force." I see that force
as she's describing it as a predator, and it can be summoned
by one who is inclined to do so. The trouble with that summoning
is that the force will also devour them at some point - which
is what happened to Crowley.
I recall all too vividly the first
time I had to face such an entity and fight to defeat it, I
know it did not come from within, it came 'at me' in an attack
and it was attacking my will, no figment of the imagination.
I saw it take form and materialize and I felt it's energy come
in contact with mine as well as the force it was drawing from.
I was terrified. My spirit had to rise to defeat it and I was
paralyzed with fear of the unknown…I had no clue at the
time what it was or why I was being attacked. I became a Witness
to that battle at a young age and others like it over the years.
I'm not alone in that, I know several individuals who have fought
in similar circumstances. In fear I tried to scream and was
mute. I could not utter a sound for the entire time it was there,
my physical body frozen in that fear, but my spirit arose and
it fought hard. This entity/spirit that came was able to move
my body by pushing on it though. That scared me too. How could
something in spirit form move me physically? It happened. I
knew where my courage and strength came from then, it was a
lesson well-learned. It was an entity from an external source,
and the battle brought about fear, gave rise to it, but my spirit
pushed through my physical and conscious limitations and knew
what to do. That battle raged for over an hour in which I was
consciously aware of everything that took place and had to stand
out of the way of my spirit to win through it…it was a
battle of Wills and I was sure I was going to die. Unless you've
been in
such a situation you're not going
to understand it but I can tell you I was not living in fear
of anything else at the time…consciously or unconsciously.
It wasn't coming from within me. I was unschooled in such encounters
though and learned to handle myself through the assistance of
my spirit and the experience itself. To this day I do not know
what brought it on other than the sense that it wanted my life
force to feed on.
In addressing an amoral destructive
energy that exists in the universe, stated: "Where it comes
from...? I'm not sure, I do know what it craves. It craves energy.
It "eats" energy. It seems to have no ability to create
its own energy and so it takes. It's parasitic and not necessarily
harmful except when it latches onto the wrong type of person
or situation. And because it eats energy it tends to be attracted
to the stronger human energy emotions - hate, rage, terror.
It creates those situations to create the energy it feeds off,
but it doesn't actually wish us harm. It's more psychopathic
than evil - it just doesn't care. If I had to name it I'd call
it HUNGER. A huge empty never-filled hunger for energy. A spiritual
black hole." And again I agree with her. Such a force or
entity will feed off of the energy of the living, be that a
human or a location and it is beyond our creations from within
ourselves. Again, it's external and an apt description of the
entity I was just speaking of. I would add that it will not
only attach to those who carry hate, rage, or terror, it will
also feed off the unsuspecting and vulnerable who are unaware
such predators exist.
DH, you stated: "In which
case, any "dark entity" that fear creates would not
affect us: would we even perceive it? If we did would it have
any hold over us? I cannot conceive that it would."
Ah, but what about those who are
possessed by a destructive spirit that must be cast out? The
exorcisms of the Church recognize this as far more than a fear
within someone, and the phenomena that accompany such possessions
is beyond human capability in the general sense. Atrocious torture
to the individual's mind, body and spirit are experienced, as
well as destructive forces unleashed against others in close
proximity. Life-threatening and life-taking situations arise.
This is not a fear based experience, though it creates fear.
Further, you stated: "If we
perceive negative energy in our lives, surely this is a sign
that we need to take note of that energy and investigate why
it is effecting us? If we perceive that another is sending us
this negative energy and do not seek to look Within, surely
we are missing an opportunity to heal an aspect of our self/Self
that needs to come to healing and we are doing our Self a disservice?
"
I'd have to say that the first
thing I would look at in that instance is the intent of the
sender and why they would do such a thing? Part of that would
be in exploring within myself to see if I'd done something to
trigger such a negative act. However some people are simply
jealous or envious or malicious in nature and enjoy doing that
sort of thing. They feed off the power they run through themselves,
off the control of others…again a sociopathic nature bent
on destroying or holding others captive to them so they feel
better about themselves. It's ego-based and often lacks conscience,
IMHO. That's not necessarily going to have anything whatsoever
to do with me personally other than being a target. And it's
not necessarily going to have anything to do with an independent
destructive force in the universe other than the individual
sending it has summoned that sort of energy to themselves to
complete their mission.
You also stated: "But I wanted
to ask those who do believe in Evil as a force separate from
our own individual mind, that can be sent out to harm others,
what purpose such a notion holds and how they square their belief
in such an evil with the individual’s ability to choose
their own reality?" Here I would say that we do have a
choice…in choosing our own reality we can opt to send it
away, deny it presence, or banish it. However doing so may take
some work. It is a force to reckon with and it is powerful.
Jimmy's comment that unconditional love overcomes it is true,
but it can also call for physical and spiritual strength as
well as mental focus that is unwavering with intent. And as
for individual realities, yes, they exist, but within the whole
and therefore they are affected by others too…they co-exist.
There are many planets and stars in the universe that co-exist,
they create the universe giving it form; yet each is a reality
unto itself but they can collide if out of orbit. Human Free
Will can collide too. And I do not believe that all evil intent
done to another is based solely in our own fear sectors. Fear,
on a personal level may feel evil in its presence, but that
doesn't mean it truly is. Nor does it mean it is the source
of evil.
To Wynsong you stated: "Yes,
but at this point in time I believe that such entities are part
of us: and that they reside "within"." And to
that I must disagree. Do I exist within you? Do you exist within
me? No. We are existing separately from one and other but still
within the body of the whole of creation…just as those
entities exist, as separate realities exist, as different dimensions
exist…parts of the whole but not whole within oneself.”
If I may, each is a different and yet vital component of the
whole whether we have understanding of that component or not.
The elemental forces of nature exist unto and within…so
while these things can exist within us they can also be external.
When two forces collide one intends to penetrate the other or
both intend it…or not…but the collisions occur. Sometimes
they create something beautiful and sometimes they are very
destructive.
I do not believe that denying fear
externalizes the destructive forces around us, or within us.
In some cases the denial could become a projection from within
us but, externally, if you have not come face to face with such
a force or entity, there's only theory to base beliefs on and
I believe we need experience to accompany that for a more rounded
understanding. This force, while it can become tangible, is
for the most part intangible…until it finds a host through
which it can manifest and thereby take possession whether that
host is aware or not is another matter. These things can happen
to non-believers as well as believers, they are indiscriminate.
If we entertain ill-will or dark thoughts that's a tasty morsel
for the destructive forces or entities that dwell with them,
a beacon they will follow allowing them to attach to us through
thoughts and emotions that are negative in some capacity. The
negative attracts them…like attracts like…and the
individual might not necessarily realize this initially feeling
quite comfortable with that energy signature so similar to their
own at the moment. In that case it would be masked by the force
or entity as the same until it takes hold…and potentially
takes over. It can also follow a vibrant positive energy…another
tasty morsel…the light that allows the life-force within
us to be seen would be stalked. If we can't defend we'd better
learn how fast, and as in the instance I related, it was on
the job training.
As a force I believe it is outside
us…separate from us. As intent it is within us and a choice
to act or not by tapping into it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Libraries
are on this row
|
|
|
INDEX
Page 3
(Main Section, Medicine Wheel, Native Languages &
Nations, Symbology)
|
|
INDEX
Page 5
(Sacred Feminine & Masculine, Stones & Minerals)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
©
Copyright: Cinnamon Moon & River WildFire Moon (Founders.)
2000-date
All rights reserved.
Site
constructed by Dragonfly
Dezignz 1998-date
|
|
