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Anyone interested in exploring this? Here's some thoughts to
start off with, because I am not a theory person...
I've had several experiences with
thoughts being the manifestors of reality as I know it. Explaining
those experiences would be wayyyyy too lengthy, since I would
need to describe the whole situation around it to clarify the
importance of the thought and the impact it had on my life in
Thoughts also trigger the "scenario-painting"
in my life. By holding onto a certain thought, I am almost scripting
But a simple example: I'm at the
supermarket, and it is busy. I am in the back of the line at
the check-out, I'm running late, and my thought is "I wish
the line would be shorter so that I can get on with other things".
And almost immediately someone steps out of the line-up because
they have forgotten something, and can't leave their cart with
kid unattended while they run through the supermarket to get
it.... someone with only one article puts that on a shelf and
leaves cuz they don't want to wait for so long for just one
item that might be purchased at the local corner store for a
dime more... another person suddenly sees a familiar face, they
start talking and they give up their space in the queue... and
then a cashier opens another check-out. Bam! Within the space
of two minutes, I am suddenly finding myself right at the front
of the line.
Thought is, to me, most certainly
another dimension. One to be explored yet, ... but it's reality
I too have instances where this occurs, to the point where I
have to be careful of what I wish for!
As far as
dimension goes, Cinn do you mean that in a sense that thought
is the basis of EVERYTHING? whether inanimate or living? matter
or action? Everything that we have or do is because of thought
whether it be good or bad. I like the way you put it in a post
elsewhere in terms of us being souls having bodies rather than
bodies having souls. Is that what you meant by that? I from
here believe in the single dream, a collective dream, Spirits
dream...oneness, A giant ocean of thought. Like our bodies having
separate parts all with their specific and equally important
tasks. Many parts...one body. We are all Spirits tasks, parts
in a body. Am I on the right track? Then there's critical mass
which I guess is another story all together but I sooooo hope
that it is a real thing and one day the world simultaneously
turns to love.
say that the entire universe once fit into the size of a pinhead,
in a density that we cannot comprehend and the potential (pure
energy) of all that exists now did also exist then in the same
amount of mass. Like a giant single piece of metal which is
melted down to make lots of smaller things. It then expanded
to what we have today, the theory exists that the reason for
the expansion, and therefore everything that exists, is in essence
the same thing, that being thought, which I have come to believe
as Spirit . So now apparently the universe is expanding at a
rate that is beyond the understanding of my mind, but will get
to the point where that energy, or thought will start to be
so thin and widely spread that it will begin to contract back
in, and eventually after a many millions of years it will be
back to the point of being the size of a pin head again, and
then eventually start to expand once more. I find this amazing
and see the similarities in the rise and fall of the sun and
moon, the ebb and tide, life and death, the seasons and even
the wave length of a drum beat or heartbeat. Cycles within cycles.
I know I'm telling you anything new but it does excite me and
I just love to *think* about it! I await your thoughts.
Quote: and one day
the world simultaneously turns to love I'd venture to
say that the world *is* turning to love...
and I'd sure agree with you on the
critical mass thought. Just seeing how a child's smile can affect
the mood (and turn it around) of several people on a simple
grocery shopping outing, I can see the power in walking the
talk, in living our beliefs and dreams and focusing the thought
this might been seen as what is magick. Applying intent towards
a particular goal. Now when doing magick normally there is a
raising of energy or channeling that may not be a part of these
instances but still it's applying thoughts with intent towards
a goal. These arent uncommon I have these things happen
to me too. For example when taking the subway and it's crowed
I actually focus myself and move people out of my way so I can
is exciting, you've all grasped what I was getting at and each
of you expanded on it! Look at the way this expanded and you'll
see how the dimension of thought expands and brings things into
Northernwolf is right, it's part of the premise of Magic/Medicine.
Thought brings things into focus, you create an image, you send
it out into the universe to gather energy, and it comes back
manifesting through you. The intention behind those thoughts
determines if the manifestation is a good or bad thing...NOT
the energy itself. The integrity of the person determines their
character and what they will or will not entertain as thought.
The stronger we hold to a thought the stronger the vision becomes
and we have the focus (target/seeding) of the event.
Just as you've experienced this in the physical reality of the
subway and checkout lines (I use it for parking and stop signs!)
you can see the magic working in life. Spirit and the physical
world ARE one.
What works in one place works in another. Sometimes it's within
minutes. Wishes (as Walt Disney said) are just dreams the heart
makes. It's the heart we put into things, the needs we call
out, the love we spread that nurtures and manifests. The two
worlds of the physical and spiritual are One. See the spiritual
realm as the feminine energy...for the moment and purpose of
diagraming the process...and the physical world as the masculine
energy. Therein you have the two parts of the whole. You can
see the universe as the body of Spirit, we as individuals are
the tiny cells in that body, but through DNA we are in essence
duplicates and so co-creators through cell division thus through
our hearts we co-create, co-manifest, co-operate in life. Isn't
this such fun???
I use it for parking
and stop signs! Ah yes, I've done that too when needing
a parking spot, either a shady one for nursing the baby, or
one near the door for using the bathroom... etc. Hehehe...How
interesting that you make the link to magick, Northern Wolf...
and that Cinn makes the link to masculine and feminine... and
Wildlite for bringing up the critical mass part to all of you!
Perhaps consciousness, "energy" (the force, power
or whatever you choose to call it), spirit are all really aspects
of the same thing, a kind of a way of the universe self-expressing
it's nature through fractal replication and diversification.
I've remembered I used to call this (inextricably multi-dimensional
"universal force") concept which I called "ga"
for some unknown reason when I was a small child.
The combination manifests in a
variety of ways. E.g. stone-ga is earth-ga earth-ga is ga etc.
but the converses aren't true. Nothing is meaningfully manifested
other than via an interaction of some sort involving consciousness.
It could be that this requires a kind of manifestation of "ga"
through the life force, before anything else becomes real in
any practical sense, or it could be that universal "ga"
is really self-aware somehow and consciously recreates expressions
Some argue that everything arises
out of consciousness and is manifested from that. I prefer to
think of it in terms of the dimensions being inextricably linked,
with all experiences/ identities being manifested like sparks
of reality out of a something like a multi-dimension flow, which
contains the essence of its own patterning effects.
Current theoretical physics would
seem to be consistent with such concepts. In one of the most
popular models in the mathematics of superstring theory the
physical universe is represented in 11 dimensions, with four
(3 space and 1 time) said to be uncurled. In this theory, the
way I interpret it, the other dimensions act sort of like very
thin slices which can't be observed by physical means but contain
aspects of the signature and wave/vibrational quality of the
According to quantum mechanics,
nothing is strictly positioned until either arguably the point
of interaction or arguably the point of meeting consciousness
through observation occur. It's all sort of like one flow through
a larger number of dimensions which is arguably only manifested
in matter through the application of consciousness. Also, elementary
units of matter are not distinct identities but are inextricably
linked. Two particles are not represented by two equations but
by a single equation. A particle considered in isolation is
really more like a vibrational wave which only has approximate
position and momentum at the time of observation. But it's nature
is really dependent on and contingent to the context containing
all the other particles.
In special relativity, the speed
of light is a constant, at least at a point in time, and matter
can't go faster than light. The amount of energy required to
increase the momentum grows increasingly rapidly as a particle
approaches the speed of light. More energy than is available
in the universe would be required to cause a particle to travel
at the speed of light. Time is relative, encapsulated in the
statement "moving clocks run slow".
In general relativity space/time
and matter are inextricably linked. As I understand it space
can't exist without energy/matter and vice versa. Space and
time aren't linear but are curved through gravity - a non-Euclidean
Superstring theory is the early
attempt to unify the theories (and the four physical forces
present in the universe) and demonstrates that no two particles
are really separate. They are tied together by what could be
characterized as strings which vibrate through all of the multiple
It also appears from these theories
that events cannot be explained in terms of a mixture of deterministic
processes and probability. The relationships have an effect
and patterns form in physical reality. There is a kind of synchronicity
at work as well as aspects of seeming randomness and seeming
Theoretically, it's thought to
be possible to go back in time through mechanisms such as a
If we accept consciousness as
inextricably intertwined in reality or as being at the root
of it, then in a sense thought is a dimension of consciousness
in the context of time, since thought represents like a movement
of consciousness. The question would remain about the extent
to which this is a dimension in the same sense as space. Intuitively
we know that thought and material action in space are linked.
(e.g. in the case where we type on the keyboard, this is brought
about through intent/thought although we are not aware of the
seqence of events that result in the realization of the intent.
Internal and external events also seemingly trigger thoughts.
Philosophically it can be viewed
from any perspective and it's inconclusive what drives what.
This still leaves some unanswerable questions and some paradoxes
around how the rules and the nature of the dimensions arise
in the first place. For example, "how was time created"
is unanswerable since the act of creation would require a time
dimension to operate in.
Some might choose to take the
view that consciousness and associated thought is at the root
of everything and that at least one dimension of time is an
aspect of consciousness and that everything else is generated
through creative thought from that root. Still doesn't explain
the true nature of the root (or source) or how it got there
in the first place. It just is. Some might say that this is
or is a part of God, which merely replaces one unanswerable
question with another. How did God get there in the first place
and if in extremis we considered God as consisting solely of
questions that can't ultimately be answered through our observations
and thought processes, then all that god is a fairly arbitrary
concept (that which cannot be known or understood, or the unresolvable
mystery, or the creator spark).
said! I'm not at all leaning to scientific terminology or theories,
but there are many here who do and I'm sure you've put things
into a perspective they can well relate to. Thank you so much!
All these things you've expressed are another way of saying
what I've said in layman's terms. The answers to the questions
you mentioned remaining in the aftermath of these theories are
found within Spirit. When the two concepts are brought together
you find the whole. The one thing that stood out in your post
as something we can't know I can attest to in my own experience
and as knowable. That is Spirit or God. During a vision quest
I was taken into Spirit, I had that understanding, I knew the
oneness to the extent of universal perception on down. However
it is such an expansive perception that the human mind cannot
stay in the state of knowing for a long period. We're not expansive
enough to remain there, but we can glimpse it. In that we learn
to trust in Spirit and in the whole.
Knowing that wholeness exists is enough to find our way to it
when we need to and to interact with it...through spiritual
means...through magic...through Medicine. This is why we center,
ground, and weave with the spiritual path the mundane path.
Two sides of the coin but the coin exists as the physical manifestation.
What can the coin do? It has power it can and will go through
transformations as a result of it spending it's energy yet it
remains always a coin. At times in motion at times still, but
it passes through many experiences bringing others into manifestation
as a result.
I think we're saying the same things here. I talk in pictures
I know, it's how I am, but we're saying basically the same things.
Where thought comes into play as a dimension it is more a categorization
of the overall dimensional realm other than physical. We need
slots to make sense of things. Thought is part of universal
consciousness, therefore in essence a category or dimension.
Cyber-space always existed, but it becomes a recognized dimension
today because we're applying it to our needs. In essence stepping
into a "new" dimension and using it. We're bringing
it together with the physical manifestation of the computer
and thus life exists there in its own essence but it's still
a part of the greater whole.
Ga...the term you used as a child for the force of life is Gaia
the life force and often manifested through Mother Earth. It's
a derivative of that and it's pronounced gee-ah I believe, most
often found in New Age circles. I don't use the term so I forget
the exact definition but I do believe it's tied to this. Thank
you for the input and sharing. I'm sure you've helped several
people bring things into perspective.
Gaia, pronouced Gah-yah.
At least it is pronounced that way in Dutch, and I've heard
English native speakers pronounce it as such too. Thanks for
sharing your thoughts on this Watchituga. Personally, I have
a hard time going through scientific stuff, but I am sure that
my husband will be able to follow this thread with more understanding
because of your post. What I do find very comforting though,
is that science is hot on our heels, so to speak. I love it
when scientists are coming up with their own way of reaching
the same understanding. Masculine and feminine, head and heart,
physical and spiritual... they're all coming together!
I agree with you Mouse, and I'm finally seeing it come full
circle through science too...though I don't feel I need that.
Perhaps science is the masculine approach, Spirit the feminine
(in essence) because it sure "feels" that way to me!
It's like science is proving what I've known all my life and
it seems the long way around to me.
So I'm content to let science do its own thing, we'll meet in
understanding in the end anyway and there will just be a whole
new slew of semantics to sort through. I can be patient as all
get out for that one!
Wachituga did a fantastic job of making sense of all that theory
that wants to be proven though. I found the post very easy to
follow and for me and scientific terms that's saying a lot.
Normally I run for the hills and cringe at it. It flowed for
me and was very comfortable. Hmmmm do you think I'm shifting
gears myself? Yikes! Here's to unity and tolerance !
another fantastic post! I just wanted to add on the science
thing that I totally agree with Wee Lil Mouse, it's fantastic
that science is hot on the heels of the spiritual schools of
thought. Who knows, maybe one day the scientists will see that
we're all talking about the same thing here...Spirit! I pray
for that day...maybe critical mass will kick in, and the whole
world will walk in faith!
Hi all, You have some great
discussions going here! I can't believe I've missed so much
in just a couple of days. I'll catch up eventually. Right now
I'm just in a different place and need to prioritize but I hope
you keep the thread going. It is nice to meet all of you.
Since my experiences in the dimensional
realms are still minimal maybe some of you could answer this
question or provide examples. Can anything be created (new life,
new thoughts, new patterns of existence) in other dimensions
that has not been manifested in the mundane first or where there
has not been an interaction with the mundane in some context?
I think I am just wondering if Universal consciousness can be
tapped into for knowledge that has not yet been manifested at
least once in the mundane?
If the mundane world is the mechanism
which Spirit can experience new patterns of feeling, thoughts
etc. and therein evolve as the sum of all of its parts, positive
thought once it has reaches a critical mass balance could then
change the course of the evolutionary process. Arent prophesies
possibly just thoughts / visions of individuals whom have tapped
into universal consciousness and picked up on other thoughts
that someone may have already created, therein receiving a vision
which is labeled prophesy? Thought is neither positive or negative
without energy attached but it does go into the realm of universal
consciousness which others can tap into. The more creative our
experiences and thoughts the more diverse the realm of knowledge
in the bank of universal consciousness (kind of like the Never
Interesting question...part of what I call Great Mystery. The
answer to this was shown to me through a spiritual experience
(Vision Quest) in which Spirit embraced me, took me up into
consciousness on a cosmic perspective and "showed"
me things I cannot describe. I came back knowing fully that
"thoughts are things" and as we think we bring them
into being. All things begin with/in Spirit.
mundane world allows (through its density) those thoughts to
become manifested physically. I can express this in a way spiritually
for you...you need only think about the *city* you keep seeing
to bring it into view. It has a spiritual purpose and through
thought you can "go there". A manifestation through
the journey experience takes place.
In the physical sense, we think about something and eventually
(depending on how deeply we're involved with that thought) we
act upon it. I think about going shopping for dinner before
I actually manifest that action. Then I do it. The result is
the prepared meal. It began in the spiritual essence...the realm
of thought...before I could bring it into being.
believe that the 90% of our brain that we can't define use for
has that definition in the context of spiritual usage and if
we open to it we can discover this for ourselves. It's my theory
and I keep testing it. So far I've found nothing to discount
it being right. The expanse of the will and thought brought
together lead to unlimited potential and in essence it's like
the computer bank...the memory and the capacity to store data.
As for other dimensional realms, they function according to
their own laws yet within the network of cosmic contexts, in
harmony perhaps, but not the same as the physical dimension.
If they were the same then they would become physically manifest.
the vibrational density that plays into this. I know of no way
to express this scientifically, it's not my forte but I think
you can jiggle it to fit what you know along those lines. Dimensional
realms, as far as I know, do not need the physical realm to
be functional in any way. They are simply a part of the whole,
and the whole needs them.
Universal consciousness can be tapped into for knowledge that
has not yet been manifested at least once in the mundane, certainly...it
holds all potential there, all thoughts exist in that context
whether they led to manifestations or not. We can ponder and
if more people ponder the same things then the energy around
those thoughts becomes stronger and leads to a reaction...manifestation.
"If the mundane world is the mechanism which Spirit can
experience new patterns of feeling, thoughts etc. and therein
evolve as the sum of all of its parts, positive thought once
it has reaches a critical mass balance could then change the
course of the evolutionary process."
Yes. I agree with this fully, but my perspective on how this
comes about is a spiritual one so bear with me. Let's assume
that Spirit is seeking to see if the state of critical mass
will come into manifestation.
A Call to the universe to touch all of humanity has to go out.
Where does Spirit speak to us? The answer is through our hearts
and we sense that presence along with our Inner Spirit coming
to attention. We are seeded in our hearts with intuitive decoding
that comes about to decipher the touch of Spirit.
Next we must exercise our free will. We must choose to be a
part of the critical mass or to turn from it denying it our
energy. With this perspective critical mass comes into being
one person at a time, one exercised choice at a time. It becomes
a movement as each person makes that choice. Spirit is not going
to split open the heavens and appear to announce the critical
mass is an option. It happens as a result of the touch.
In another thread we're discussing this Silence that seems to
strike certain individuals. I've suggested Spirit is more or
less testing a public address system to see who is receiving
at that frequency. Those who look up when the Silence hits know
it is spiritual in nature and thus it is clear it's working.
I know this is primitive but so are my thoughts on this in a
Now, let's assume that Spirit needs an answer from humanity.
On the appointed day and time this public address system comes
on, those attuned to it (of higher awareness through spiritually
seeking the higher spirit within themselves to serve the whole)
hear the Silence. It's deafening...you wait, you wonder what's
next, all sound is absorbed and there is only the void or vacuum.
Our spirit reacts, pays attention, Spirit then is free to speak.
In that respect the heavens have opened up, Spirit has appeared,
and we are presented with the situation that prophecy has foretold.
Then we respond...from our hearts, the core of our being with
our truths. Our voice is heard too...the yea's and the nay's.
"Arent prophesies possibly just thoughts / visions
of individuals whom have tapped into universal consciousness
and picked up on other thoughts that someone may have already
created, therein receiving a vision which is labeled
No, I don't think so. They are too precise and when the validations
show the manifesting results they are confirmed. A session that
brings forth a prophecy is not a dream, it's not a shamanic
journey, it's not easily granted. Prophecy, true prophecy, IMHO,
comes from preparing to connect to the divine within us and
thus with Spirit. It
requires a lot of preparation, cleansing rituals, fasting, isolation...the
40 days on the mountain.
If you look at those who source prophecy through the ages there
was always something along these lines involved...all religions
talk of these things. Christianity is easiest for me to reference
so here I'll address Moses getting the 10 commandments, Jesus
going up on the mountain for 40 days and nights, the book of
Revelation is filled with symbolic images that "will not
be understood until the time has come" and some of those
images are making sense. Not in the context of the times they
were given, but in the context of the state of the world today.
In NA prophecy we have the White Buffalo, many signs around
her that needed to come to pass to validate she was the marking
of that prophecy so we would know had to manifest. Of those
signs were two passages through the 4 colors (races of humanity...red,
yellow, black/brown, and white). The odds of one passage through
the four colors (elemental forces too) is against the odds let
alone her being born white to begin with. Buffalo do not go
through color changes as a species and if there is one it's
a freak of nature.
Now she's going through her second session of colors and it's
happening. What are the odds of this? Astronomical. Her birth
alone was in the millions, the color changes added tremendously
to that and now the second one? How much does it take to make
the world see the truth.
it is said that when the "end is near" there will
be multitudes that vanish. That fire will reign from the sky.
Well look what happens in war today, the 9/11 vaporization from
fire in the sky and the people that were never seen again. Isn't
that in keeping with that particular prophecy? Is it enough?
are many faiths in the world, all of them having their forecasted
prophecy for the end of the world...*as we know it*. I do not
for a minute believe that it will be annihilation. I believe
it is the end of life as we know it because a change is going
to take place that will bring tolerance, spiritual unity, and
peace where we respect one another and love through Spirit....it
begins within each of us, in our hearts, and therein manifests
the critical mass that you speak of. Each religion needs it's
validation, each spiritual path has it's own signs to watch
for, each person must exercise their free will and make the
choice to accept or deny the truth there...and in that to accept
or deny the presence of Spirit in their life...by whatever name
they choose to call It...and all this through our hearts, inner
spirit, and our senses. It's internal first...spiritual...and
then as each of us comes forward to exercise that choice we
join in critical mass by sheer numbers.
This is the Change you hear others who see it beginning to show
the early signs speak of. The signs are all around us. There
is a global critical mass movement wherein people are seeking
outside religion in spiritual ways to connect or reconnect to
Spirit. It's greater than it's ever been and the level of tolerance
for the multitude of paths is there to support it and respect
for any path that is a good one. There's no longer just "one
way" to finding your path but a variety that say we are
One in essence. In this context the critical mass is manifesting
itself and will move forward when that time comes...signaled
then (I believe) by this Silence people are experiencing so
that Spirit's voice may be heard by all who have made the choice
to listen...from their hearts.
During Vision Quest there was that encounter with Spirit and
in that all truths within me (for good and bad) were brought
into the light and undeniable. Spirit doesn't look into our
minds to see the truth, It looks into our hearts where that
truth lives. Our intent, our love, our compassion are there.
So are the shadows of hatred and rage. We're all good and bad,
but our choice, our free will determines what we will allow
ourselves to manifest. That's what Spirit looks for, it's what
finds us *worthy* to receive. That's where the greatest battle
resides...in us. The battle to make the right choice...to face
our truth as we see it.
"Thought is neither positive or negative without energy
attached but it does go into the realm of universal consciousness
which others can tap into. The more creative our experiences
and thoughts the more diverse the realm of knowledge in the
bank of universal consciousness (kind of like the Never Ending
Yes...it's the realm of potential. The more focus there is on
a thought (the more people that hold it) the stronger it becomes
and in time manifests itself. What the mind of man can conceive,
and believe, it can achieve. *giggles* Okay, I'll shut up now.
Cinammon, I agree with
most of what you have said but I come away from reading this
feeling like a doormat; that part of my personality I gave up
about 40 years ago. To serve is a good and wonderful thing,
to sit and wait until one is told what to do is being a doormat.
It is time to at least be the cleaner of the doormat. Something
(action), for me, is still missing and I am frustrated since
I cannot yet find the missing link.
is seeking enlightenment and understanding being a doormat?
You are seeking to understand the signs and information that
is giving you the direction for that service. I'd say you're
much more than a doormat, in fact, that you are an active participant
trying to find your place in the scheme of things. The direction
will reveal itself when you have the right understanding to
take that action. That's all.
Sitting around being spoon
fed things on another's time frame, even if it is Spirits, is
being a doormat and is not acceptable. At the rate I am going
I'll be dead before I know what the purpose of this knowing
is. In that case no purpose would have been served even by the
knowing. I hope the understanding comes very soon.
is timed perfectly, it comes not too soon, not too late, but
just perfectly. This sounds like a lesson in patience to me
and trust me, we all learn that one again and again and again...and
again. *sighs* I'm constantly learning it and I bet you'll find
everyone here can tell you the same thing. No one escapes this
Cinnamon, You are right
about patience and will still need to be patient in regards
to most information since I was told I could not know yet. But
again I was given "enough" direction to remove the
frustration. I will post in the other thread under the Dance.
know what you mean there. It can be frustrating at first but
as it unfolds for you there will also unfold the understanding
of why it needed to be this way at this time. I'll look for
the other post.
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