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Classic vs Core Shamanism
Ethics of Spellcasting
Ethics of the Native Sacred Point of View
Following Others Discussion
Galactic Gateways
Harvesting the Fruits of Aging Discussion
Ley Lines & Vortexes
Mazes, Labyrinths & Spiral Discussion
Mother Earth
Praying Peace Discussion
Seeing through Soft Eyes
Soul Retrieval Discussion
Soul vs Spirit Discussion
Spirit Names & Their Medicine

Thought Dimension
By Mouse

Anyone interested in exploring this? Here's some thoughts to start off with, because I am not a theory person...

I've had several experiences with thoughts being the manifestors of reality as I know it. Explaining those experiences would be wayyyyy too lengthy, since I would need to describe the whole situation around it to clarify the importance of the thought and the impact it had on my life in 3D.

Thoughts also trigger the "scenario-painting" in my life. By holding onto a certain thought, I am almost scripting my life.

But a simple example: I'm at the supermarket, and it is busy. I am in the back of the line at the check-out, I'm running late, and my thought is "I wish the line would be shorter so that I can get on with other things". And almost immediately someone steps out of the line-up because they have forgotten something, and can't leave their cart with kid unattended while they run through the supermarket to get it.... someone with only one article puts that on a shelf and leaves cuz they don't want to wait for so long for just one item that might be purchased at the local corner store for a dime more... another person suddenly sees a familiar face, they start talking and they give up their space in the queue... and then a cashier opens another check-out. Bam! Within the space of two minutes, I am suddenly finding myself right at the front of the line.

Thought is, to me, most certainly another dimension. One to be explored yet, ... but it's reality for me.

Mouse, I too have instances where this occurs, to the point where I have to be careful of what I wish for!

As far as dimension goes, Cinn do you mean that in a sense that thought is the basis of EVERYTHING? whether inanimate or living? matter or action? Everything that we have or do is because of thought whether it be good or bad. I like the way you put it in a post elsewhere in terms of us being souls having bodies rather than bodies having souls. Is that what you meant by that? I from here believe in the single dream, a collective dream, Spirits dream...oneness, A giant ocean of thought. Like our bodies having separate parts all with their specific and equally important tasks. Many parts...one body. We are all Spirits tasks, parts in a body. Am I on the right track? Then there's critical mass which I guess is another story all together but I sooooo hope that it is a real thing and one day the world simultaneously turns to love.

Scientists say that the entire universe once fit into the size of a pinhead, in a density that we cannot comprehend and the potential (pure energy) of all that exists now did also exist then in the same amount of mass. Like a giant single piece of metal which is melted down to make lots of smaller things. It then expanded to what we have today, the theory exists that the reason for the expansion, and therefore everything that exists, is in essence the same thing, that being thought, which I have come to believe as Spirit . So now apparently the universe is expanding at a rate that is beyond the understanding of my mind, but will get to the point where that energy, or thought will start to be so thin and widely spread that it will begin to contract back in, and eventually after a many millions of years it will be back to the point of being the size of a pin head again, and then eventually start to expand once more. I find this amazing and see the similarities in the rise and fall of the sun and moon, the ebb and tide, life and death, the seasons and even the wave length of a drum beat or heartbeat. Cycles within cycles. I know I'm telling you anything new but it does excite me and I just love to *think* about it! I await your thoughts.

Quote: “and one day the world simultaneously turns to love” I'd venture to say that the world *is* turning to love...

and I'd sure agree with you on the critical mass thought. Just seeing how a child's smile can affect the mood (and turn it around) of several people on a simple grocery shopping outing, I can see the power in walking the talk, in living our beliefs and dreams and focusing the thought into 3D.

actually this might been seen as what is magick. Applying intent towards a particular goal. Now when doing magick normally there is a raising of energy or channeling that may not be a part of these instances but still it's applying thoughts with intent towards a goal. These aren’t uncommon I have these things happen to me too. For example when taking the subway and it's crowed I actually focus myself and move people out of my way so I can move easier.

This is exciting, you've all grasped what I was getting at and each of you expanded on it! Look at the way this expanded and you'll see how the dimension of thought expands and brings things into being.

Northernwolf is right, it's part of the premise of Magic/Medicine. Thought brings things into focus, you create an image, you send it out into the universe to gather energy, and it comes back manifesting through you. The intention behind those thoughts determines if the manifestation is a good or bad thing...NOT the energy itself. The integrity of the person determines their character and what they will or will not entertain as thought. The stronger we hold to a thought the stronger the vision becomes and we have the focus (target/seeding) of the event.

Just as you've experienced this in the physical reality of the subway and checkout lines (I use it for parking and stop signs!) you can see the magic working in life. Spirit and the physical world ARE one.

What works in one place works in another. Sometimes it's within minutes. Wishes (as Walt Disney said) are just dreams the heart makes. It's the heart we put into things, the needs we call out, the love we spread that nurtures and manifests. The two worlds of the physical and spiritual are One. See the spiritual realm as the feminine energy...for the moment and purpose of diagraming the process...and the physical world as the masculine energy. Therein you have the two parts of the whole. You can see the universe as the body of Spirit, we as individuals are the tiny cells in that body, but through DNA we are in essence duplicates and so co-creators through cell division thus through our hearts we co-create, co-manifest, co-operate in life. Isn't this such fun???

“I use it for parking and stop signs!” Ah yes, I've done that too when needing a parking spot, either a shady one for nursing the baby, or one near the door for using the bathroom... etc. Hehehe...How interesting that you make the link to magick, Northern Wolf... and that Cinn makes the link to masculine and feminine... and Wildlite for bringing up the critical mass part to all of you!

Some thoughts:
Perhaps consciousness, "energy" (the force, power or whatever you choose to call it), spirit are all really aspects of the same thing, a kind of a way of the universe self-expressing it's nature through fractal replication and diversification. I've remembered I used to call this (inextricably multi-dimensional "universal force") concept which I called "ga" for some unknown reason when I was a small child.

The combination manifests in a variety of ways. E.g. stone-ga is earth-ga earth-ga is ga etc. but the converses aren't true. Nothing is meaningfully manifested other than via an interaction of some sort involving consciousness. It could be that this requires a kind of manifestation of "ga" through the life force, before anything else becomes real in any practical sense, or it could be that universal "ga" is really self-aware somehow and consciously recreates expressions of itself.

Some argue that everything arises out of consciousness and is manifested from that. I prefer to think of it in terms of the dimensions being inextricably linked, with all experiences/ identities being manifested like sparks of reality out of a something like a multi-dimension flow, which contains the essence of its own patterning effects.

Current theoretical physics would seem to be consistent with such concepts. In one of the most popular models in the mathematics of superstring theory the physical universe is represented in 11 dimensions, with four (3 space and 1 time) said to be uncurled. In this theory, the way I interpret it, the other dimensions act sort of like very thin slices which can't be observed by physical means but contain aspects of the signature and wave/vibrational quality of the universe.

According to quantum mechanics, nothing is strictly positioned until either arguably the point of interaction or arguably the point of meeting consciousness through observation occur. It's all sort of like one flow through a larger number of dimensions which is arguably only manifested in matter through the application of consciousness. Also, elementary units of matter are not distinct identities but are inextricably linked. Two particles are not represented by two equations but by a single equation. A particle considered in isolation is really more like a vibrational wave which only has approximate position and momentum at the time of observation. But it's nature is really dependent on and contingent to the context containing all the other particles.

In special relativity, the speed of light is a constant, at least at a point in time, and matter can't go faster than light. The amount of energy required to increase the momentum grows increasingly rapidly as a particle approaches the speed of light. More energy than is available in the universe would be required to cause a particle to travel at the speed of light. Time is relative, encapsulated in the statement "moving clocks run slow".

In general relativity space/time and matter are inextricably linked. As I understand it space can't exist without energy/matter and vice versa. Space and time aren't linear but are curved through gravity - a non-Euclidean geometry.

Superstring theory is the early attempt to unify the theories (and the four physical forces present in the universe) and demonstrates that no two particles are really separate. They are tied together by what could be characterized as strings which vibrate through all of the multiple dimensions.

It also appears from these theories that events cannot be explained in terms of a mixture of deterministic processes and probability. The relationships have an effect and patterns form in physical reality. There is a kind of synchronicity at work as well as aspects of seeming randomness and seeming mechanistic causality.

Theoretically, it's thought to be possible to go back in time through mechanisms such as a "wormhole".

If we accept consciousness as inextricably intertwined in reality or as being at the root of it, then in a sense thought is a dimension of consciousness in the context of time, since thought represents like a movement of consciousness. The question would remain about the extent to which this is a dimension in the same sense as space. Intuitively we know that thought and material action in space are linked. (e.g. in the case where we type on the keyboard, this is brought about through intent/thought although we are not aware of the seqence of events that result in the realization of the intent. Internal and external events also seemingly trigger thoughts.

Philosophically it can be viewed from any perspective and it's inconclusive what drives what. This still leaves some unanswerable questions and some paradoxes around how the rules and the nature of the dimensions arise in the first place. For example, "how was time created" is unanswerable since the act of creation would require a time dimension to operate in.

Some might choose to take the view that consciousness and associated thought is at the root of everything and that at least one dimension of time is an aspect of consciousness and that everything else is generated through creative thought from that root. Still doesn't explain the true nature of the root (or source) or how it got there in the first place. It just is. Some might say that this is or is a part of God, which merely replaces one unanswerable question with another. How did God get there in the first place and if in extremis we considered God as consisting solely of questions that can't ultimately be answered through our observations and thought processes, then all that god is a fairly arbitrary concept (that which cannot be known or understood, or the unresolvable mystery, or the creator spark).

Hi Watchituga!

Well said! I'm not at all leaning to scientific terminology or theories, but there are many here who do and I'm sure you've put things into a perspective they can well relate to. Thank you so much!

All these things you've expressed are another way of saying what I've said in layman's terms. The answers to the questions you mentioned remaining in the aftermath of these theories are found within Spirit. When the two concepts are brought together you find the whole. The one thing that stood out in your post as something we can't know I can attest to in my own experience and as knowable. That is Spirit or God. During a vision quest I was taken into Spirit, I had that understanding, I knew the oneness to the extent of universal perception on down. However it is such an expansive perception that the human mind cannot stay in the state of knowing for a long period. We're not expansive enough to remain there, but we can glimpse it. In that we learn to trust in Spirit and in the whole.

Knowing that wholeness exists is enough to find our way to it when we need to and to interact with it...through spiritual means...through magic...through Medicine. This is why we center, ground, and weave with the spiritual path the mundane path. Two sides of the coin but the coin exists as the physical manifestation. What can the coin do? It has power it can and will go through transformations as a result of it spending it's energy yet it remains always a coin. At times in motion at times still, but it passes through many experiences bringing others into manifestation as a result.

I think we're saying the same things here. I talk in pictures I know, it's how I am, but we're saying basically the same things. Where thought comes into play as a dimension it is more a categorization of the overall dimensional realm other than physical. We need slots to make sense of things. Thought is part of universal consciousness, therefore in essence a category or dimension. Cyber-space always existed, but it becomes a recognized dimension today because we're applying it to our needs. In essence stepping into a "new" dimension and using it. We're bringing it together with the physical manifestation of the computer and thus life exists there in its own essence but it's still a part of the greater whole.

Ga...the term you used as a child for the force of life is Gaia the life force and often manifested through Mother Earth. It's a derivative of that and it's pronounced gee-ah I believe, most often found in New Age circles. I don't use the term so I forget the exact definition but I do believe it's tied to this. Thank you for the input and sharing. I'm sure you've helped several people bring things into perspective.

Gaia, pronouced Gah-yah. At least it is pronounced that way in Dutch, and I've heard English native speakers pronounce it as such too. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Watchituga. Personally, I have a hard time going through scientific stuff, but I am sure that my husband will be able to follow this thread with more understanding because of your post. What I do find very comforting though, is that science is hot on our heels, so to speak. I love it when scientists are coming up with their own way of reaching the same understanding. Masculine and feminine, head and heart, physical and spiritual... they're all coming together!

Yes, I agree with you Mouse, and I'm finally seeing it come full circle through science too...though I don't feel I need that. Perhaps science is the masculine approach, Spirit the feminine (in essence) because it sure "feels" that way to me! It's like science is proving what I've known all my life and it seems the long way around to me.

So I'm content to let science do its own thing, we'll meet in understanding in the end anyway and there will just be a whole new slew of semantics to sort through. I can be patient as all get out for that one!

Wachituga did a fantastic job of making sense of all that theory that wants to be proven though. I found the post very easy to follow and for me and scientific terms that's saying a lot. Normally I run for the hills and cringe at it. It flowed for me and was very comfortable. Hmmmm do you think I'm shifting gears myself? Yikes! Here's to unity and tolerance !

Yet another fantastic post! I just wanted to add on the science thing that I totally agree with Wee Lil Mouse, it's fantastic that science is hot on the heels of the spiritual schools of thought. Who knows, maybe one day the scientists will see that we're all talking about the same thing here...Spirit! I pray for that day...maybe critical mass will kick in, and the whole world will walk in faith!

Hi all, You have some great discussions going here! I can't believe I've missed so much in just a couple of days. I'll catch up eventually. Right now I'm just in a different place and need to prioritize but I hope you keep the thread going. It is nice to meet all of you.

Since my experiences in the dimensional realms are still minimal maybe some of you could answer this question or provide examples. Can anything be created (new life, new thoughts, new patterns of existence) in other dimensions that has not been manifested in the mundane first or where there has not been an interaction with the mundane in some context? I think I am just wondering if Universal consciousness can be tapped into for knowledge that has not yet been manifested at least once in the mundane?

If the mundane world is the mechanism which Spirit can experience new patterns of feeling, thoughts etc. and therein evolve as the sum of all of its parts, positive thought once it has reaches a critical mass balance could then change the course of the evolutionary process. Aren’t prophesies possibly just thoughts / visions of individuals whom have tapped into universal consciousness and picked up on other thoughts that someone may have already created, therein receiving a “vision” which is labeled prophesy? Thought is neither positive or negative without energy attached but it does go into the realm of universal consciousness which others can tap into. The more creative our experiences and thoughts the more diverse the realm of knowledge in the bank of universal consciousness (kind of like the Never Ending Story).

Hi Earthwalker,

Interesting question...part of what I call Great Mystery. The answer to this was shown to me through a spiritual experience (Vision Quest) in which Spirit embraced me, took me up into consciousness on a cosmic perspective and "showed" me things I cannot describe. I came back knowing fully that "thoughts are things" and as we think we bring them into being. All things begin with/in Spirit.

The mundane world allows (through its density) those thoughts to become manifested physically. I can express this in a way spiritually for you...you need only think about the *city* you keep seeing to bring it into view. It has a spiritual purpose and through thought you can "go there". A manifestation through the journey experience takes place.

In the physical sense, we think about something and eventually (depending on how deeply we're involved with that thought) we act upon it. I think about going shopping for dinner before I actually manifest that action. Then I do it. The result is the prepared meal. It began in the spiritual essence...the realm of thought...before I could bring it into being.

I believe that the 90% of our brain that we can't define use for has that definition in the context of spiritual usage and if we open to it we can discover this for ourselves. It's my theory and I keep testing it. So far I've found nothing to discount it being right. The expanse of the will and thought brought together lead to unlimited potential and in essence it's like the computer bank...the memory and the capacity to store data.

As for other dimensional realms, they function according to their own laws yet within the network of cosmic contexts, in harmony perhaps, but not the same as the physical dimension. If they were the same then they would become physically manifest. IMHO.It's the vibrational density that plays into this. I know of no way to express this scientifically, it's not my forte but I think you can jiggle it to fit what you know along those lines. Dimensional realms, as far as I know, do not need the physical realm to be functional in any way. They are simply a part of the whole, and the whole needs them.

Universal consciousness can be tapped into for knowledge that has not yet been manifested at least once in the mundane, certainly...it holds all potential there, all thoughts exist in that context whether they led to manifestations or not. We can ponder and if more people ponder the same things then the energy around those thoughts becomes stronger and leads to a reaction...manifestation. IMHO

"If the mundane world is the mechanism which Spirit can experience new patterns of feeling, thoughts etc. and therein evolve as the sum of all of its parts, positive thought once it has reaches a critical mass balance could then change the course of the evolutionary process."

Yes. I agree with this fully, but my perspective on how this comes about is a spiritual one so bear with me. Let's assume that Spirit is seeking to see if the state of critical mass will come into manifestation. A Call to the universe to touch all of humanity has to go out. Where does Spirit speak to us? The answer is through our hearts and we sense that presence along with our Inner Spirit coming to attention. We are seeded in our hearts with intuitive decoding that comes about to decipher the touch of Spirit.

Next we must exercise our free will. We must choose to be a part of the critical mass or to turn from it denying it our energy. With this perspective critical mass comes into being one person at a time, one exercised choice at a time. It becomes a movement as each person makes that choice. Spirit is not going to split open the heavens and appear to announce the critical mass is an option. It happens as a result of the touch.

In another thread we're discussing this Silence that seems to strike certain individuals. I've suggested Spirit is more or less testing a public address system to see who is receiving at that frequency. Those who look up when the Silence hits know it is spiritual in nature and thus it is clear it's working. I know this is primitive but so are my thoughts on this in a way. LOL.

Now, let's assume that Spirit needs an answer from humanity. On the appointed day and time this public address system comes on, those attuned to it (of higher awareness through spiritually seeking the higher spirit within themselves to serve the whole) hear the Silence. It's deafening...you wait, you wonder what's next, all sound is absorbed and there is only the void or vacuum. Our spirit reacts, pays attention, Spirit then is free to speak. In that respect the heavens have opened up, Spirit has appeared, and we are presented with the situation that prophecy has foretold. Then we respond...from our hearts, the core of our being with our truths. Our voice is heard too...the yea's and the nay's.

"Aren’t prophesies possibly just thoughts / visions of individuals whom have tapped into universal consciousness and picked up on other thoughts that someone may have already created, therein receiving a “vision” which is labeled prophesy?"

No, I don't think so. They are too precise and when the validations show the manifesting results they are confirmed. A session that brings forth a prophecy is not a dream, it's not a shamanic journey, it's not easily granted. Prophecy, true prophecy, IMHO, comes from preparing to connect to the divine within us and thus with Spirit. It requires a lot of preparation, cleansing rituals, fasting, isolation...the 40 days on the mountain.

If you look at those who source prophecy through the ages there was always something along these lines involved...all religions talk of these things. Christianity is easiest for me to reference so here I'll address Moses getting the 10 commandments, Jesus going up on the mountain for 40 days and nights, the book of Revelation is filled with symbolic images that "will not be understood until the time has come" and some of those images are making sense. Not in the context of the times they were given, but in the context of the state of the world today.

In NA prophecy we have the White Buffalo, many signs around her that needed to come to pass to validate she was the marking of that prophecy so we would know had to manifest. Of those signs were two passages through the 4 colors (races of humanity...red, yellow, black/brown, and white). The odds of one passage through the four colors (elemental forces too) is against the odds let alone her being born white to begin with. Buffalo do not go through color changes as a species and if there is one it's a freak of nature.

Now she's going through her second session of colors and it's happening. What are the odds of this? Astronomical. Her birth alone was in the millions, the color changes added tremendously to that and now the second one? How much does it take to make the world see the truth.

Biblically it is said that when the "end is near" there will be multitudes that vanish. That fire will reign from the sky. Well look what happens in war today, the 9/11 vaporization from fire in the sky and the people that were never seen again. Isn't that in keeping with that particular prophecy? Is it enough? No.

There are many faiths in the world, all of them having their forecasted prophecy for the end of the world...*as we know it*. I do not for a minute believe that it will be annihilation. I believe it is the end of life as we know it because a change is going to take place that will bring tolerance, spiritual unity, and peace where we respect one another and love through Spirit....it begins within each of us, in our hearts, and therein manifests the critical mass that you speak of. Each religion needs it's validation, each spiritual path has it's own signs to watch for, each person must exercise their free will and make the choice to accept or deny the truth there...and in that to accept or deny the presence of Spirit in their life...by whatever name they choose to call It...and all this through our hearts, inner spirit, and our senses. It's internal first...spiritual...and then as each of us comes forward to exercise that choice we join in critical mass by sheer numbers.

This is the Change you hear others who see it beginning to show the early signs speak of. The signs are all around us. There is a global critical mass movement wherein people are seeking outside religion in spiritual ways to connect or reconnect to Spirit. It's greater than it's ever been and the level of tolerance for the multitude of paths is there to support it and respect for any path that is a good one. There's no longer just "one way" to finding your path but a variety that say we are One in essence. In this context the critical mass is manifesting itself and will move forward when that time comes...signaled then (I believe) by this Silence people are experiencing so that Spirit's voice may be heard by all who have made the choice to listen...from their hearts.

During Vision Quest there was that encounter with Spirit and in that all truths within me (for good and bad) were brought into the light and undeniable. Spirit doesn't look into our minds to see the truth, It looks into our hearts where that truth lives. Our intent, our love, our compassion are there. So are the shadows of hatred and rage. We're all good and bad, but our choice, our free will determines what we will allow ourselves to manifest. That's what Spirit looks for, it's what finds us *worthy* to receive. That's where the greatest battle resides...in us. The battle to make the right choice...to face our truth as we see it.

"Thought is neither positive or negative without energy attached but it does go into the realm of universal consciousness which others can tap into. The more creative our experiences and thoughts the more diverse the realm of knowledge in the bank of universal consciousness (kind of like the Never Ending Story)."

Yes...it's the realm of potential. The more focus there is on a thought (the more people that hold it) the stronger it becomes and in time manifests itself. What the mind of man can conceive, and believe, it can achieve. *giggles* Okay, I'll shut up now.

Cinammon, I agree with most of what you have said but I come away from reading this feeling like a doormat; that part of my personality I gave up about 40 years ago. To serve is a good and wonderful thing, to sit and wait until one is told what to do is being a doormat. It is time to at least be the cleaner of the doormat. Something (action), for me, is still missing and I am frustrated since I cannot yet find the missing link.

How is seeking enlightenment and understanding being a doormat? You are seeking to understand the signs and information that is giving you the direction for that service. I'd say you're much more than a doormat, in fact, that you are an active participant trying to find your place in the scheme of things. The direction will reveal itself when you have the right understanding to take that action. That's all.

Sitting around being spoon fed things on another's time frame, even if it is Spirits, is being a doormat and is not acceptable. At the rate I am going I'll be dead before I know what the purpose of this knowing is. In that case no purpose would have been served even by the knowing. I hope the understanding comes very soon.

Everything is timed perfectly, it comes not too soon, not too late, but just perfectly. This sounds like a lesson in patience to me and trust me, we all learn that one again and again and again...and again. *sighs* I'm constantly learning it and I bet you'll find everyone here can tell you the same thing. No one escapes this one.

Cinnamon, You are right about patience and will still need to be patient in regards to most information since I was told I could not know yet. But again I was given "enough" direction to remove the frustration. I will post in the other thread under the Dance.

I know what you mean there. It can be frustrating at first but as it unfolds for you there will also unfold the understanding of why it needed to be this way at this time. I'll look for the other post.

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